2:32 pm
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline
I would like to get some advice about my track bar mount. After running the Barrett Lake trail last month I noticed a lot of play in my steering on the drive home. I should probably mention that I did not see the cut end of a large log on the edge of the trial and I hit it with my passenger side tire. Although I wasn't going very fast, it did caused a violent rotation of steering wheel that wasn't exactly comfortable to my hands and wrists! After inspecting my TJ at home I found my front track bar bolt was loose. There was about 1/8 of play with the bolt in place, but not fully tightened, so I just tightened it up and road tested it and it steered fine. Today I took the bolt out the traction bar and inspected the bushing and sleeve and they seemed fine. So again I just tightened the bolt up. Is this an adequate fix? If so, should I have the alignment checked since this might have changed it? Or should I somehow reduce the size of the bolt opening in the track bar mount so that the bolt can't move? If so, what method of repair is recommend. It looks like both holes in the track bar mount appear to be about the same diameter, which I assume is enlarged due to wear. I read on one forum that some people have just welded a washer on to reduce the size of the bolt hole opening but after hearing at the club meeting that some Jeeps are practically made of washers, perhaps I should consider something else. Thanks in advance for any recommendations!
7:37 pm
Club Trailmaster
March 13, 2015
Offline What kind of track bar are you running? (need to know specific brand and type as the details will make a difference here)
You will need to inspect the frame side track bar mount. The factory forged track bar mount is known to rip off the frame in extreme situations but may have cracked some of the welds.
If the issue is simply wallowed out holes on the axle bracket then you have a few options. OPTION 1: Depending on the brand of track bar you may be able to up the bolt diameter. Rubicon Express offers a 1/2 bushing for their track bars that replaces the factory axle side M10 bolt. (M10 is similar to a 7/16) Clayton offroad sells a 9/16 kit, and MetalCloak uses a M14 on their TJ track bars (M14 is similar to 9/16). OPTION 2: Get a weld-on replacement trackbar bracket for the axle side. I will have to look to see who makes one. OPTION 3: Weld washers.
Either way, you should visually check to see if the axle is still centered and then have the Jeep alignment checked.
6:14 am
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline kris_olof said
What kind of track bar are you running? (need to know specific brand and type as the details will make a difference here)
Kris,
I had a RE 4.5 super flex short arm kit installed in 2006. In June of this year I had WFO Concepts install the RE TJ Long Arm Upgrade Kit (in my 04 TJ). I'm running the RE track bar that was installed back in 2006. I believe I have a RE 1600 adjustable track bar.
6:28 am
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline Jeff_R said
I had a RE 4.5 super flex short arm kit installed in 2006. In June of this year I had WFO Concepts install the RE TJ Long Arm Upgrade Kit (in my 04 TJ). I'm running the RE track bar that was installed back in 2006. I believe I have a RE 1600 adjustable track bar.
I meant to mention that that I had WFO go through everything in June because things were pretty worn and beat up. They replaced my stock front, lower control arm brackets with heavy duty brackets because they were bent and cracked but they didn't seem concerned about the condition of the track bar mount. I will take a closer look at it anyway.
12:19 pm
Club Trailmaster
March 13, 2015
Offline Since you are running the long arm kit I recommend installing a HD track bar and a matching drop pitman arm. The long arm kit will put extra stress on the stock frame side mount so the double shear mount is really the way to go anyway. A HD track bar with a double shear mount will require drilling out the axle bracket (negating need for the weld washers) and will put a thick bracket over the factory track bar mount (negating any potential cracking issues). The drop pitman arm is just to prevent bump steer are the HD bracket will drop the angle of the track bar slightly.
Metalcloak sells this stuff locally PN 7094, Rubicon express has their 1610 track bar/1611 bracket, and clayton has a similar setup.
If there is an issue with the axle side track bar mount Rubicon Express part number 9989 is a weld in replacement for $25.
You should be able to resell your RE 1600 setup either here (Mike G needs one) or on craigslist.
7:55 pm
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline kris_olof said
Since you are running the long arm kit I recommend installing a HD track bar and a matching drop pitman arm. The long arm kit will put extra stress on the stock frame side mount so the double shear mount is really the way to go anyway. A HD track bar with a double shear mount will require drilling out the axle bracket (negating need for the weld washers) and will put a thick bracket over the factory track bar mount (negating any potential cracking issues). The drop pitman arm is just to prevent bump steer are the HD bracket will drop the angle of the track bar slightly.Metalcloak sells this stuff locally PN 7094, Rubicon express has their 1610 track bar/1611 bracket, and clayton has a similar setup.
If there is an issue with the axle side track bar mount Rubicon Express part number 9989 is a weld in replacement for $25.
You should be able to resell your RE 1600 setup either here (Mike G needs one) or on craigslist.
Kris, thanks for your thoughtful reply. Sounds logical to me after googling the parts and seeing how everything would fit. I think I might make your recommended modifications. Much appreciated!
7:10 am
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline kris_olof said
Since you are running the long arm kit I recommend installing a HD track bar and a matching drop pitman arm. The long arm kit will put extra stress on the stock frame side mount so the double shear mount is really the way to go anyway. A HD track bar with a double shear mount will require drilling out the axle bracket (negating need for the weld washers) and will put a thick bracket over the factory track bar mount (negating any potential cracking issues). The drop pitman arm is just to prevent bump steer are the HD bracket will drop the angle of the track bar slightly.Metalcloak sells this stuff locally PN 7094, Rubicon express has their 1610 track bar/1611 bracket, and clayton has a similar setup.
If there is an issue with the axle side track bar mount Rubicon Express part number 9989 is a weld in replacement for $25.
You should be able to resell your RE 1600 setup either here (Mike G needs one) or on craigslist.
Kris, I have ordered the RE 1610 heavy duty trac bar and the 1611 bracket. Can I use my existing drop pitman arm or do I need to get a different one? If I need to change the drop pitman arm, how do I determine what one (what size) to get?
12:51 pm
Club Trailmaster
March 13, 2015
Offline You should be fine if you already have one. What is your current drop pitman arm? (like how many inches) If it came from rubicon express they you already have one that will work. I think the RE HD track bar calls for 2" of additional drop.
6:29 pm
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline kris_olof said
You should be fine if you already have one. What is your current drop pitman arm? (like how many inches) If it came from rubicon express they you already have one that will work. I think the RE HD track bar calls for 2" of additional drop.
I'm not totally sure but I don't think I have a drop pitman arm. I thought I did but I looked through all of my paperwork and I don't see where one was installed by either of the two shops that did my lift and modifications.
7:16 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline A drop pitman arm is not required. It is just a band aide for improper steering alignment.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
7:32 pm
April 10, 2015
Offline
Don't get a Rubicon track bar, all ready having problems with mine. I just replaced the bar 9 months ago. I know they will replace it for free, but how many times do I need to do this?
5:16 am
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline Darrell and Jill said
Don't get a Rubicon track bar, all ready having problems with mine. I just replaced the bar 9 months ago. I know they will replace it for free, but how many times do I need to do this?
I used to bend my RE HD trac bar every third run or so.
I eventually went to a design with no bends in it and it lasted and lasted.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
6:42 am
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline JohnDF said
I used to bend my RE HD trac bar every third run or so.
I eventually went to a design with no bends in it and it lasted and lasted.
Good to know. I have been using a RE trac bar without a problem but decided to switch to the RE HD trac bar and mounting bracket based on advice from Kris after switching from a RE 4.5 short arm to a long arm kit. I already bought the RE HD trac bar and the RE trac bar bracket so I guess I will give it a try. I appreciate the feedback guys.
9:24 am
Club Member
September 3, 2008
Offline If you have problems with the RE components, let me know Jeff. I'm pretty tight with Shaun From Rubicon Express and I'm sure we could get him to warranty any problem you have.
Um...what?
10:29 am
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline Gregulator said
If you have problems with the RE components, let me know Jeff. I'm pretty tight with Shaun From Rubicon Express and I'm sure we could get him to warranty any problem you have.
Thanks Greg!
3:27 pm
Club Trailmaster
March 13, 2015
Offline Jeff_R said
I'm not totally sure but I don't think I have a drop pitman arm. I thought I did but I looked through all of my paperwork and I don't see where one was installed by either of the two shops that did my lift and modifications.
You can compare to mine visually at the next meeting as I have the same setup you talking about. And JohnDF said a drop pitman arm isnt totally necessary but if you plan to street your jeep it will eliminate most of the bumpsteer. I built my LJ in stages starting with a short arm and then moving to a long arm upgrade. Without the drop pitman arm, a badly paved overpass transition (think 80 going through Davis at the 113 interchange) could send the wheel turning 1/4 turn or leave me half in the next lane if I held the wheel tight.
3:42 pm
Club Trailmaster
March 13, 2015
Offline Darrell and Jill said
Don't get a Rubicon track bar, all ready having problems with mine. I just replaced the bar 9 months ago. I know they will replace it for free, but how many times do I need to do this?
I generally get a year or two out of my RE track bars before needing to rebuild or tighten the joint. Next time it fails I will be going to the Metalcloak RE replacement track bar. Bolts in using the existing RE bracket and is solid chromo vs the tube of RE.
3:47 pm
Club Trailmaster
March 13, 2015
Offline 
JohnDF said
I used to bend my RE HD trac bar every third run or so.
I eventually went to a design with no bends in it and it lasted and lasted.
Yet to bend my RE track bar but I did bend the 1 1/4" solid forged currie currectlync steering on my LJ. Im beginning to think user error though I dont remember anything specific that would have bent it.
7:14 am
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline Like I said, a drop pitman arm is a band aid for bad steering geometry. If your trac bar and drag link are parallel, DO NOT add a drop pitman arm. If they are not parallel then a drop pitman arm may cure the angles. Pitman arms used to be a very big deal on YJs and CJs, they were needed with any type of lift. Now the TJs have improved steering geometry and you can lift it 5.5" without the need for a drop pitman arm. I won't even mention all the drop pitman arms I've seen break on the trail. It was so bad I used to carry spare drop pitman arms even though I always ran a stock one. Luckily I always carried a couple of them when I went to the Hammers and one trip they both were needed. I'm not saying they are evil, I'm not saying that you don't need one, I'm just saying don't put one on just because all the cool kids are doing it 🙂
I used to wheel a lot. . .
10:43 am
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline JohnDF said
Like I said, a drop pitman arm is a band aid for bad steering geometry. If your trac bar and drag link are parallel, DO NOT add a drop pitman arm. If they are not parallel then a drop pitman arm may cure the angles. Pitman arms used to be a very big deal on YJs and CJs, they were needed with any type of lift. Now the TJs have improved steering geometry and you can lift it 5.5" without the need for a drop pitman arm. I won't even mention all the drop pitman arms I've seen break on the trail. It was so bad I used to carry spare drop pitman arms even though I always ran a stock one. Luckily I always carried a couple of them when I went to the Hammers and one trip they both were needed. I'm not saying they are evil, I'm not saying that you don't need one, I'm just saying don't put one on just because all the cool kids are doing it 🙂
I will install the HD trac bar and bracket and then see if I need a drop pitman arm after road testing it. Thanks for the feedback! BTW, I'm too old to be a cool kid!
12:19 pm
Club Trailmaster
March 13, 2015
Offline JohnDF said
Like I said, a drop pitman arm is a band aid for bad steering geometry. If your trac bar and drag link are parallel, DO NOT add a drop pitman arm. If they are not parallel then a drop pitman arm may cure the angles. Pitman arms used to be a very big deal on YJs and CJs, they were needed with any type of lift. Now the TJs have improved steering geometry and you can lift it 5.5" without the need for a drop pitman arm. I won't even mention all the drop pitman arms I've seen break on the trail. It was so bad I used to carry spare drop pitman arms even though I always ran a stock one. Luckily I always carried a couple of them when I went to the Hammers and one trip they both were needed. I'm not saying they are evil, I'm not saying that you don't need one, I'm just saying don't put one on just because all the cool kids are doing it 🙂
Good point on them being more fragile. Rough Country had a big batch of pitman arms that weren't broached properly and would come loose due to the wiggle.
10:14 am
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline Thanks for the advice guys. I found an article that does a good job of explaining why and when you might need a drop pitman arm. This makes sense to me:
"What you want to do to resolve bump steer on a coil-sprung vehicle is make the amount of DROP the same amount on both bars. If the drag link drops 4” from left to right, then the track bar should drop 4” from left to right. Measure from the pavement up to the pivot point of each, and fill in the numbers here:"
https://kevinsoffroad.com/bump.....-parallel/
It appears to me that the RE HD trac bar mount will lower the frame side end of the trac bar by about an inch or so, which isn't a huge change. RE recommends the use of a drop pitman arm with their HD trac bar bracket. The goal is to have the trac bar and draglink as close to parallel as possible. This seems like a simple case of geometry that RE should be able to have an answer to. I called them but I didn't get a definitive answer other than they recommend a drop pitman arm. The unanswered question is, will the trac bar and draglink be more parallel with or without the installation of a drop pitman arm? Good question!
2:36 pm
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline Today I'm installing the RE HD track bar. I installed the RE HD track bar bracket as per the instructions. I then installed the lower end (axel end) of the track bar. The last step is to install the frame end of the track bar into the RE HD bracket. WTH, the track bar is too long and won't fit into the bracket. The frame end is adjustable and I have it adjusted all the way to the shortest length possible and it's still too long! The only way that this could fit is if I cut down the track bar on the threaded (adjustable) end to shorten it. There is no way that this should be necessary and I'm certainly not going to risk destroying a brand new track bar. Here are some pics with the adjustable end tightened (shortened) as much as possible. As you can see, it is too long and won't even fit into the bracket so there is no way that the holes can line up. I guess I will need to call RE to see what the heck is going on here. Any thoughts?
4:18 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline Make sure your Jeep body is centered over the axle.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
5:27 pm
Club Member
July 14, 2016
Offline JohnDF said
Make sure your Jeep body is centered over the axle.
I centered it using a vertical level from the tires and then measured perpendicular to the edge of the fenders. I then tried to attached the track bar but it was a no go.
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