BKGM Jeepers said Absolutely do not buy anything from Currie for the front end. Their meshed unit bearings are garbage and cost 450 each to replace. I am on number 5 and 6 currently, and need number 7. 37 is max tire size for them, which you already run.
Good to know. Currie is out.
JohnDF said The Dynatrac 44/60 hybrid looks "Way-Cool-a-Go-Go".Has a 44 center section and all 60 outers. Very much like my old Tera 50.
I beat the crap out of that old Tera 50 and it never made a peep.
Could you imagine how strong that would be running 37s?
I dont know, the JKU is already ~1,000 lbs heavier than a TJ before you start modifying it so that is a lot of extra strain. Probably fine on a 2 door but the 4 door is a lot more rig to push around. Also depends what gear ratio you want to run. Gears become the weak point above a certain point on the Dana 44. 5.38s are the steepest the big companies make for it and the pinion gets mighty small to get so few teeth. I think I would rather blow a hub than be at higher risk for gear failure on the trail. Also I thought the plan was for eventual 40s?
kris_olof said
I dont know, the JKU is already ~1,000 lbs heavier than a TJ before you start modifying it so that is a lot of extra strain. Probably fine on a 2 door but the 4 door is a lot more rig to push around. Also depends what gear ratio you want to run. Gears become the weak point above a certain point on the Dana 44. 5.38s are the steepest the big companies make for it and the pinion gets mighty small to get so few teeth. I think I would rather blow a hub than be at higher risk for gear failure on the trail. Also I thought the plan was for eventual 40s?
That's true about the weight of the JKU vs the TJ. But the 8.8 gear set used in the JK D44 is much stronger than the TJ D44 gear set. According to Dynatrac, they just aren't seeing breakage of the Jk Front D44 gear sets. They go on to say that the front gear sets are much stronger than people think. With all that being said, the 5:13 ratio is recommended to keep strength at a premium. It's not that I plan to run the Hybrid with 40s, it's just interesting to bring it to the conversation. And for someone that wanted 37 inch tires as a max size, this axle would be unbelievable.
It's already been mentioned to stay away from Currie front axles because of crappy unit bearings, but how about the Rock Jock rear D60s?
They can be had at a reasonable price. I like the high clearance, the skid plate, and the fact that I can get it in 5 on 5 bolt pattern but switch to 5 on 5.5 later. That means I can keep my current wheels while I figure out the front.
And what about Tera? I know they used to build one heck of a strong axle, but I heard everything is being made in China now. Has anybody heard good or bad about Tera's current stuff?
Lot's to comment about here.
For reading purposes, check out this article comparing different 60s for the JK. Just note this article is a little older. Some changes have been made: http://www.mikesjeep.com/articles/dana-60-shoot-out
As for Dynatracs, they have always been a top tier company that has had a premium price point to run their products. American made with American steel (If there is such a thing) For a long time, they didn't offer 35 spline outers. That was an upgrade that costs more $. They came out with their the new package deal to compete with the UD60s. It's been really great for us the consumer. Dynatracs are great axles no questions asked. Just really make sure you don't get caught up in upgrade up charges and pay attention to what you are getting in the details.
UD60s changed the market. They haven't been out long and had some changes that have been a work in progress. They come with much larger brakes and their own caliper unlike Dynatrac - (reuse old calipers but get bigger rotors). You can find them complete ready to bolt in with driveshaft options which makes them a weekend project. 35 spline all the way through. Their is a lot of debate on the e locker. 2 pin vs 4 pin. Dana has done extensive research on the 2 pin design and they say that if you can break the 2 pin e locker, you need to move to a larger axle than a dana 60. The 4 pin design hasn't been able to pass dana's testing yet... Another greta option as Kris has mentioned is that your current drag link and tie rod will swap right over and you won't need to buy a new set.
Currie, like brad said I wouldn't buy unless you plan to stay on 37s or go RJ 70 but I still wouldn't run their unit bearing and would rather run f350 factory unit bearings. High pinion rear is a slippery slope. Huck with his hemi and 40s broke 3 rear ring and pinions due to gear deflection in their rear application. This is why they have come out with their new load bolt VRX 60s design which costs more money. Basically it adds a bolt to pinch the rear ring gear so it can't pull away from the pinion. Mostly seen in drag racing applications. Currie can make nice products but their unit bearing is what drives me away from using them.
Teraflex is interesting. There isn't a lot out there about them. But I think they make a nice product. It is the most complete axle set you will get. Comes with calipers and their own tie rod and drag link. The knuckles are a one piece design. No steering arm to come loose or snap bolts with which I think is a nice touch. Full Float rear design as well as 35 splines and multiple gear choices. They have a high pinion rear, which again will potential give you rear gear deflection. If you wheel like a Toyota guy, I don't think it could be an issue but if a hemi is in your future, watch out. The nice feature that I like is the rear full float and front hub are all standard bearings that you can get at any auto parts store.
We are working with 3 of the top mentioned companies and I hope to bring you guys more insider information. I'll keep you posted.
Custom width is really only an option with Dynatrac and Currie. UD60s is set at 68.5 and Teraflex is 67" or 70".
Tons of good info right there. Thanks Greg.
Here's another option to confuse you even more! 🙂
https://www.fusion4x4.com/
JohnDF said Tons of good info right there. Thanks Greg.
I love talking axles. #axletalkpodcast
k-jeep said Here's another option to confuse you even more! 🙂 https://www.fusion4x4.com/
Okay! My interest is peeked...
So many questions running through my mind...
Will the stock outers (unit bearing, brakes, knuckles, etc) be strong enough to run 40s?
I would obviously have to order a custom length to run 40s?
Will it have to match any rear 60 length that I might buy afterwards?
What length would you buy?
Why don't they make a rear?
Is there a way to beef up the outers at a later date?
If I flush a toilet in Australia, does it swirl backwards?
JohnDF saidOkay! My interest is peeked...
So many questions running through my mind...
Will the stock outers (unit bearing, brakes, knuckles, etc) be strong enough to run 40s?
I would obviously have to order a custom length to run 40s?
Will it have to match any rear 60 length that I might buy afterwards?
What length would you buy?
Why don't they make a rear?
Is there a way to beef up the outers at a later date?
If I flush a toilet in Australia, does it swirl backwards?
I would call. They sell a complete D44/60. They were talking about a JK package to compete with the UD60s at one point, so they may have rear axles too. They weren't around when I bought mine. Or at least not known.
For the toilet flushing I would call the Australia Prime Minister to find out.
k-jeep saidI would call. They sell a complete D44/60. They were talking about a JK package to compete with the UD60s at one point, so they may have rear axles too. They weren't around when I bought mine. Or at least not known.
I did some reading from some posts they made on one of the JK forums. This front axle is meant to be another affordable option for those looking to upgrade to a Dynatrac Prorock 44. There idea is that if you are going to spend the money to upgrade your D44, why not spend the same amount and get something a little better. It is not meant as a replacement for a full D60. So this is more of a replacement for someone running 37 inch tires. But they do say you can run 40 inch tires, just be aware that the outers are going to be the weak link, but the outers are a quick fix compared to anything inside. It's an interesting approach.
Another interesting thing they said is that a HP D60 Semi Float rear axle isn't much of an upgrade from the stock Rubicon D44. They say the shafts are just slightly stronger (32 vs 35) and the gears are a wash since the D44 is low pinion and run on the stronger side. They are seeing about the same amount of broken gears in both setups, and that isn't really that many to start with. People are still bending flanges on both axle setups, which is the most likely part to "break" (read bend). They say to REALLY upgrade a person should go with a Low Pinion Full Float D60.
Finally, they recommend their Reverse Hybrid 60/44 axle in the front, and the stock Rubicon D44 in the rear with upgraded shafts as the BEST budget friendly alternative. The weak link in the front will be the unit bearing which will probably have to be replaced once or twice a year. The weak link in the back will be the potential for bending the flanges. In both cases the rig will be able to drive home for repairs.
Which leads to the question: If a person was to run the Hybrid in the front and stock in the rear and one day decides to upgrade his tires to 38 or 40, wouldn't you need to run wheel spacers? And wouldn't those wheel spacers add leverage to the the flanges and unit bearings which are already the weak link?
Thoughts?
https://youtu.be/cs7iYFYxBuw
Watch this video John. All your comments are correct and the only way I would go high pinion in the rear is if it were a full float. I think I could make the gears last and would enjoy the high clearance. Brad seems to able to keep his alive without any issue.
The teraflex full float kit is cool because on the front JK it eliminates the unit bearing and gives you a free hub and spindle. The rear kit turns your current axle to full float which is awesome!! My only fear after that kit to run 40s would be width, C's and housing strength.
Ball joints seem to not really be an issue if you buy the good ones right out of the gate. Dyantrac or Rare Parts seem to be able to hold up.
-Stock housing trussed, gusseted, sleeved
-HD ball joints
-Reid JK knuckles
-Terflex 8-lug outers
-RCV shafts
Plenty strong for 40s save for ring and pinions. At which point you should just go with the 60s and not have to worry. For price and all around strength I dont see you beating the UD60s even on paper.
So...
to be really set-up while still running 37/38 inch tires and stock axles...
I should add (to my existing sleeves and gussets)
1. a set of HD ball joints
2. inner chromo front shafts
3. CTM u-joints
4. Tera's 8 lug full float (front/rear)
5. new 8 lug wheels.
I'm going to have to price all that out and see where I sit.
(EDIT) It looks like around $6,000 to complete that set-up
JohnDF said So... to be really set-up while still running 37 inch tires and stock axles... I should add (to my existing sleeves and gussets) 1. a set of HD ball joints 2. inner chromo front shafts 3. CTM u-joints 4. Tera's 8 lug full float (front/rear) 5. new 8 lug wheels. I'm going to have to price all that out and see where I sit.
Maybe reach out to RCV and Teraflex about compatibility or even a custom RCV outer. I say this because Chromos and CTMs are in the same ball park $ as RCVs anyway and RCV has a legit warranty. Also easier to warranty with one company vs separately with shaft manufacturer and CTM if something does fail.
Very interesting thread.
In all honesty I still consider myself a novice to this whole 4 wheeling vehicle thing but in my experience I have already had many issues with the front axel and have dumped some money in it, but have never touched my rear. Every time I have thrown my plan of leaving the rear alone and putting a 60 in the front I get weird looks and am always told to do the rear first.
Is there a valid reason for this other than the rear is the main drive, and is it easier to get out on a broken front than a broken rear?
I think the old school train of thought applies to doing the rear first because the rear axles weren't that great and generally, the rear gets more abuse than the front.
The JK front axle has it's weak spots no doubt. Many more than the rear. But I personally think the rear axle is very strong for the most part. I've thought a ton about just keeping my rear axle and upgrading it. The only problem is if and when something breaks after all that money spent, would I wish I would have gone with the 60.
Eddie from Wayalife did the 60 front first and wheeled with too 40x15.5 on the rear 44 for about a rear before he broke the ring and pinion in this video. Time-9:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqkxVi2D9Ng
He has a long list of trails that he did with that setup. But ultimately he ended up with a 60 and then later an 80 after a motor swap. If you have no intentions of going to 40s. I wouldn't go 60. Unless your my brother Jeff...
I wish the tire market would bring more 38" and 39" tires to market. I think there needs to be tires between 37" and 40" for the built JK application.
If I was building a TJ or LJ, I would have a hard time not swapping in some JK 44 axles and running 37+ tires on them. Wheel them until you have hosing issues then swap to some fancy aftermarket housing.
If you want ultimate JK strength, just go RCV fronts and rear. It will only cost you about $2800 for all the axle shafts but you will get a lifetime warranty.
Also, Rob in the club ran 40's on JK axles for several years before he just swapped over to 60 and 14 bolt.
That's what I ran across in all my searches too. The rear axle is actually pretty solid with 37/38 tires. I guess a 60 front would make the most sense if you have to split the costs. Then get adapters for the rear wheels that will let you run the same wheels at the same width while saving for the rear 60.
JohnDF said That's what I ran across in all my searches too. The rear axle is actually pretty solid with 37/38 tires. I guess a 60 front would make the most sense if you have to split the costs. Then get adapters for the rear wheels that will let you run the same wheels at the same width while saving for the rear 60.
My original plan was to do the front first and use adapters on the rear based on the prices at the time. Then they announced the UD60s and I waited. Now there are more options available than at that time.
I had 2 choices.
21k for dynatrak. 10k for mine.
So if I go with UD60s with drivelines and brake lines, what else will I need to make everything work?
Obviously I'd need 8 lug wheels. What else? Booster? Master Cylinder? Hydro assist? Anything?
JohnDF said So if I go with UD60s with drivelines and brake lines, what else will I need to make everything work? Obviously I'd need 8 lug wheels. What else? Booster? Master Cylinder? Hydro assist? Anything?
The link below is Dana/Spicer's build list for the jeep that they built. It appears that they added parking break cables (they need to be longer than the factory setup), a brake master cylinder and booster kit. I know that Northridge 4x4 can answer/get these items for you along with whoever else sells the axles. From my understanding, Kevin is not running the new brake master cylinder or the booster kit and has no problems stopping. I assume the pedal feel is probably not factory though without the new brake setup.
http://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/files/media/ZDHmp3PpxkNfNkdMR/perf-u60buildlist-102016.pdf?store=original
Mopar® Brake Master Cylinder and Booster Kit
Mopar® Parking Brake Cable LH
Mopar® Parking Brake Cable RH
Parking brake cables, yes. I tried the stock ones but they just didn't work out.
I do not have the upgraded master cylinder/booster kit. I have no issues with stopping. Just make sure you get a really good bleed on the brakes.
If you want to drive my Jeep and feel the brakes, let me know.
Do you feel the need to upgrade the booster Kevin?
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