Building the HP30 and C8.25

"JohnDF" wrote: I would have preferred a D60 in the front, but I just stepped into the good deal on the 44/60 combo. I haven't had any issues with the 44, so I guess it wasn't a bad decision after all. But I think it comes down to how you drive, if I was a lead foot like Rob I'd break 60s like he does.

Somehow, I just don't see that being the final statement on that topic.

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"JohnDF" wrote: I would have preferred a D60 in the front, but I just stepped into the good deal on the 44/60 combo. I haven't had any issues with the 44, so I guess it wasn't a bad decision after all. But I think it comes down to how you drive, if I was a lead foot like Rob I'd break 60s like he does.

I think driving style is really key. In the 4Runner I did fine with really low gears and a stock front with upgraded shafts. Took me everywhere I wanted to go. I seem to remember reading that a built toyota front and a built 44 are pretty similar in strength but it would take me a bit to find it.

😁 😁 😁

I have only broken 1 rear HP 60 ring and pinion, bent 1 rear alloy 35 spline axle shaft, 1 atlas yoke and drive line. Front axle I haven't broken anything but a hub. Wore out my wheel bearings and toasted the spindles 😈

"JohnDF" wrote: if I was a lead foot like Rob I'd break 60s like he does.

"Bender" wrote: I think driving style is really key.

That is a theme I hear over and over and it makes lots of sense.



My goal is to be built for those few times when you find yourself in a situation that requires plain ol' grunt ... that finesse will not get you out.

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"RobD" wrote: 😁 😁 😁
I have only broken 1 rear HP 60 ring and pinion, bent 1 rear alloy 35 spline axle shaft, 1 atlas yoke and drive line. Front axle I haven't broken anything but a hub. Wore out my wheel bearings and toasted the spindles 😈

[quote="JohnDF"] if I was a lead foot like Rob I'd break 60s like he does.

See John, I knew you were over-stating. :throw:

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I think you have to make your own desicions and a lot of what is said in this thread is opinions and experiences. With that said, I'm not made of money, so a 60 isn't always a choice. I mean, don't get me wrong, I would buy a 60 front all day long if I could. Heck, I would do a hi 9 front end if the sky was the limit.



But one thing to think about is how your rig would respond to 60's. 35's and 60's would do you no good in my humble opinion. I personally would only do a 60 front if I was going bigger than 37's. It's just a lot of weight and missing ground clearance that would have you hung up all over the trail.



Another thought I always like to think about is, some people spend more money on axles then what the rest of the rig is worth. That's not a bad thing, but sometimes money spent on else where my be a better option. Again just my opinion. I'm not trying to rag on anybody's rig either.



And my final thought for this post, as I can see Tom's mind racing on what's next for his Cherokee. Your Cherokee has a unibody. That's one thing to think about with the size and weight of axles you throw under your rig. Anything can be done. It's all about $$. But I would really want to reinforce my unibody before strapping 60's under my rig. Just so you don't tear any axles of your rig out on the trail.



Just food for thought.

My JK rear 60 has more ground clearance than my stock 44. Weight is another issue however. I never measured my front to compare between stock and my 60.



My TJ 60 was 1/4" lower than my stock 44 and the same clearance up front.

Personally, if I was going to think of building a rig, I would just buy one already built. Like Rob's Jeep is a screaming deal when you think that he's probably got over $60,000 into that rig. I have seen some built XJs selling for less than a set of axles. But, and that's a big butt, I have already went through the whole modification and build-up phase and it has lost some of its charm. Somebody that hasn't been through it is probably excited about modding their own rig.



But I'd have to agree that a 60 would be overkill for 35 inch tires. A D30 would handle 35 inch tires just fine with some good shafts, ujoints, and hubs. Then you can probably get a built 44 for the rear pretty dog-gone cheap if you look around.

If one goes to bigger axles (more strength to handle more abuse) it is to go to bigger tires (why bother with 33"😉 which require different wheels (no more 5x4-1/2 as I have now). Axles and wheels and tires and ...? 🤷



We are in the snow season for the next few months so this topic can be discussed and cussed for some time before decisions need to be made. 🍺



In the meantime, I have a laundry list of mods that need to get done regardless of what the next steps are. :weld: :hack:

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"JohnDF" wrote: Personally, if I was going to think of building a rig, I would just buy one already built. Like Rob's Jeep is a screaming deal when you think that he's probably got over $60,000 into that rig. I have seen some built XJs selling for less than a set of axles. But, and that's a big butt, I have already went through the whole modification and build-up phase and it has lost some of its charm. Somebody that hasn't been through it is probably excited about modding their own rig.

But I'd have to agree that a 60 would be overkill for 35 inch tires. A D30 would handle 35 inch tires just fine with some good shafts, ujoints, and hubs. Then you can probably get a built 44 for the rear pretty dog-gone cheap if you look around.

John, the smart money would follow your recommendation. However, the cost of doing all this work is less than my therapy sessions. :wacko:

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Or you can just do like i did...

Have one rig modded out for the rocks and another rig for looking nice and snow wheeling 😁

When thinking about an axle change what most of us consider is strength of : axle tube, housing,C's, spindle or unit bearing,carrier and gears and last the axle it self. My rear axle is the same as a 60.1 1/2 35 spline that can use a set 10(d44) or a set 20(d60) outer bearing. The race is the same only the dia. of the rollers is different.It is in no way a 60. A 44 out of a mail jeep with its larger dia. and thicker tube would close the gap with those axles. ( boing! you have disc or drums in the rear?) Would have 35 spline inners on the front except I wanted to have outer seals but nobody made them so I used the 30 spline evo's. These can be run in the d30 also. They must be good as john has yet to break one. The aftermarket control arm brackets that get used on these swaps are a huge improvement over the stock ones also. You might want to add some bracing to your stock ones to the list also. My first stock 44 housing lasted 3 weeks, bent it in a clover field while on cow(coyote) duty. Another 853.00 later for another new housing and a days work. I am still on that same housing with stock brackets. They can last if you are careful and have a little luck. I feel I am only one mistake or rock strike away from bending one on the trail.

When thinking about an axle change what most of us consider is strength of : axle tube, housing,C's, spindle or unit bearing,carrier and gears and last the axle it self. My rear axle is the same as a 60.1 1/2 35 spline that can use a set 10(d44) or a set 20(d60) outer bearing. The race is the same only the dia. of the rollers is different.It is in no way a 60. A 44 out of a mail jeep with its larger dia. and thicker tube would close the gap with those axles. ( boing! you have disc or drums in the rear?) drums



Would have 35 spline inners on the front except I wanted to have outer seals but nobody made them so I used the 30 spline evo's. These can be run in the d30 also. They must be good as john has yet to break one. The aftermarket control arm brackets that get used on these swaps are a huge improvement over the stock ones also. You might want to add some bracing to your stock ones to the list also. currently have Rough Country X-series LCAs. need UCAs. looking into the Rough Country Long Arm as I can install that for the same $$$ as getting the UCAs and transmission and Xfer case skids. it comes with the skids.



My first stock 44 housing lasted 3 weeks, bent it in a clover field while on cow(coyote) duty. Another 853.00 later for another new housing and a days work. I am still on that same housing with stock brackets. They can last if you are careful and have a little luck. I feel I am only one mistake or rock strike away from bending one on the trail. sounds like you'd feel better with a 60, if I read this correctly.



Just more to consider. Thanks!!

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Tom I haven't met you yet but I've been following Your build. What would you think of JKS front adjustable uca's in good shape. In keeping with the post they came off an hp 30. PM me if you want the rediculously low price. Low ball me if you have to. I'm trying to clean out the garage. 🙂

"rick-rock" wrote: Tom I haven't met you yet but I've been following Your build. What would you think of JKS front adjustable uca's in good shape. In keeping with the post they came off an hp 30. PM me if you want the rediculously low price. Low ball me if you have to. I'm trying to clean out the garage. 🙂

PM sent.

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"TomD" wrote: When thinking about an axle change what most of us consider is strength of : axle tube, housing,C's, spindle or unit bearing,carrier and gears and last the axle it self. My rear axle is the same as a 60.1 1/2 35 spline that can use a set 10(d44) or a set 20(d60) outer bearing. The race is the same only the dia. of the rollers is different.It is in no way a 60. A 44 out of a mail jeep with its larger dia. and thicker tube would close the gap with those axles. ( boing! you have disc or drums in the rear?) drums

Would have 35 spline inners on the front except I wanted to have outer seals but nobody made them so I used the 30 spline evo's. These can be run in the d30 also. They must be good as john has yet to break one. The aftermarket control arm brackets that get used on these swaps are a huge improvement over the stock ones also. You might want to add some bracing to your stock ones to the list also. currently have Rough Country X-series LCAs. need UCAs. looking into the Rough Country Long Arm as I can install that for the same $$$ as getting the UCAs and transmission and Xfer case skids. it comes with the skids.

My first stock 44 housing lasted 3 weeks, bent it in a clover field while on cow(coyote) duty. Another 853.00 later for another new housing and a days work. I am still on that same housing with stock brackets. They can last if you are careful and have a little luck. I feel I am only one mistake or rock strike away from bending one on the trail. sounds like you'd feel better with a 60, if I read this correctly. Nope,A Solid,Terra or Ford would do quite nicely.

Just more to consider. Thanks!!
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Keep it going Tom, were almost there! I'll get John and Justin's HP 44's. You can have one of ours. I'll sell the other and put a HP 60 in the back of Sue's. Well take her rear and put long arms and coils in the back of yours. Ill re-tube the rear of mine like Fred's.( 60 won't fit because of my gas tank without a stretch ) Oh, you will need new rims, 5x5.5's.

"jsmorrow" wrote: Keep it going Tom, were almost there! I'll get John and Justin's HP 44's. You can have one of ours. SOLD!!

I'll sell the other and put a HP 60 in the back of Sue's. Well take her rear and put long arms and coils in the back of yours. Carpet, seats and headliner are coming out by the end of the month so there will be lots of room inside and out.

Ill re-tube the rear of mine like Fred's.( 60 won't fit because of my gas tank without a stretch ) Can I help? Can I, can I, can I??

Oh, you will need new rims, 5x5.5's. I have 5 Dick Cepek DC-1s in good condition I'm told are still worth a pretty penny.

When do we start??

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"jsmorrow" wrote: Ill re-tube the rear of mine like Fred's.

My rear D44 was probably overpriced at the time I had it built but no one was selling HD bolt-in D44 axles back then. I do like the thick wall tubes but the other cool mod is the slightly offset pumpkin so both rear axleshafts are the same length. I only have to carry one spare.

"jsmorrow" wrote: Keep it going Tom, were almost there! I'll get John and Justin's HP 44's. You can have one of ours. I'll sell the other and put a HP 60 in the back of Sue's. Well take her rear and put long arms and coils in the back of yours. Ill re-tube the rear of mine like Fred's.( 60 won't fit because of my gas tank without a stretch ) Oh, you will need new rims, 5x5.5's.

Not True! I ran a rear 60 without a stretch and with a 25 gallon enduro gas tank. I'm not sure if you have a larger tank as well but mine fit everything!

"BKGM Jeepers" wrote: [quote="jsmorrow"]Keep it going Tom, were almost there! I'll get John and Justin's HP 44's. You can have one of ours. I'll sell the other and put a HP 60 in the back of Sue's. Well take her rear and put long arms and coils in the back of yours. Ill re-tube the rear of mine like Fred's.( 60 won't fit because of my gas tank without a stretch ) Oh, you will need new rims, 5x5.5's.

Not True! I ran a rear 60 without a stretch and with a 25 gallon enduro gas tank. I'm not sure if you have a larger tank as well but mine fit everything!

You just need to lift it higher so the fuel tank is further from the axle

Mine cleared the tank under compression, but it did sit below the tank under normal driving.

"BKGM Jeepers" wrote: [quote="jsmorrow"]Keep it going Tom, were almost there! I'll get John and Justin's HP 44's. You can have one of ours. I'll sell the other and put a HP 60 in the back of Sue's. Well take her rear and put long arms and coils in the back of yours. Ill re-tube the rear of mine like Fred's.( 60 won't fit because of my gas tank without a stretch ) Oh, you will need new rims, 5x5.5's.

Not True! I ran a rear 60 without a stretch and with a 25 gallon enduro gas tank. I'm not sure if you have a larger tank as well but mine fit everything!

Yesterday my arms were at 34" std LA is 33" Put my old 33" one's on today and did the plum bob and tape measure thing today. It would be iffy as the tanks are different. They changed the design and mine sits almost 1" lower. I haven't checked to see how many gallons it holds. I have put over 24gal in it more than once. Wish i got the stretch tank when I had the chance.

I wasn't willing to settle for less gas to gain 3" more clearance.

Well, I may have a line on a D44 rear axle for an 87 XJ which would be a "bolt-in" ... more on that as things develop.



That would leave only the front axle to deal with ... maybe a 44HP up there as well.

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