8:52 pm
January 27, 2011
Offline
Started getting off-topic on Carl's thread (on lockers) so thought I'd start a new one.
"jsmorrow" wrote: As far as the front axle goes I don't see a big difference in building a HP D30 and a LP D44 if done on factory housings. The upside to scoring a take out 44 with an ARB is that if or when you bend the housing you could re-use the arb and inners if you went to a HP 44 of the same width. With ours, if we used a cherokee 4 bolt caliper outer C we could re use all of our outer stuff too and have the stronger ford/chevy pre-loadable ball joint design and better angles to flip the tie rod. It won't happen, we need to be an inch wider than we are now on each side. If I had known Sue was going to get bit by the trail bug like she did I would never ever ever ever spend the money on the stock front axle like I did. When I did mine we test fit a solid hp 44 but just didn't have enough room between the rad,exhaust, and had front driveshaft/ tranny clearance issues, it only had 3.5" of lift on 33's and I did not want to go wider or higher. Now that it's higher and wider... I think you get the point. Have been looking/ gathering stuff for 2 hp d44's for a while now, Ill let you know if I find stuff you may want to use. If you by new axles I have became a big fan of the Superior Evo shafts. Killed 3 spicer axle joints this year and they took it in stride. I'm not brave enough for ctm's yet but just replaced with something a little stronger that are serviceable. If you end up with a jeep 44 just be sure the gears are set up WITHOUT the crush sleeve for the pinion preload. Anything with a crush sleeve is a 1 bump and done. It will happen at the worst time.
"BKGM Jeepers" wrote: JK D44 fronts are HP. I don't recall what TJ front D44's are...
"jsmorrow" wrote: TJ's are LP. The Argentine Cherokee's had the HP 44's and are hard to come by now. Wish I would have bought 2 front JK 60's when you did.
WOW! So much to take in. It appears there is no way to build a rig without some incrementalism. After reading the posts, a couple of questions come to mind but let me set them up first.
1 - Everything I've read says the HP30 is a decent axle to build on and with stronger axles and a truss will rival the HP44. True/False?
2 - The corporate rear axle (C8.25 w/ 29-spline axle) in it's standard form is also close to the D44 in strength. True/False?
I have the 27-spine but the conversion to 29-spline is a matter of axles, carrier and side gears (pick/pull stuff).
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
9:15 pm
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline It is possible to build with doing it incrementally. It just takes money and down time. The bigger issue is avoiding duplication in your build (here may be what you refer to as incremental). I build my TJ very incrementally, but my JK is a one shot deal so far. The only waste I have is some C gussets and a diff cover for my front D44, but they added value to the axle's re-sale...
12:43 am
Club Member
September 3, 2008
Offline Tom, axle building is all about wheeling style and tire size. I would feel confident building a hp30 for 35's. But if you EVER think you will go bigger I would jump to a HP44. I wont hesitate to wheel 40s on a built hp44 but again I'm not a full throttle wheeler. Don't waste money on the HP30 if you think the mod bite will continue.
Um...what?
1:36 am
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline Just for reference, I wheel 38s on a HP D44. It's been through the Hammers 4 years, through Fordyce a gazillion times, and ran through the Little Sluice at the Rubicon. All without breakage. I doubt the HP D30 would have held up so well.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
2:20 am
July 15, 2005
Offline Save your money, I will sell you 2 built HP60's for 15k and they come with a nice jeep attached to them 😀
__________________
'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
3:20 am
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline "RobD" wrote: Save your money, I will sell you 2 built HP60's for 15k and they come with a nice jeep attached to them 😀
Booooo....You can't sell your jeep 👿
I used to wheel a lot. . .
3:41 am
January 27, 2011
Offline "JohnDF" wrote: [quote="RobD"]Save your money, I will sell you 2 built HP60's for 15k and they come with a nice jeep attached to them 😀
Booooo....You can't sell your jeep 👿
No you can't so stop talking like that. 
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
4:06 am
January 27, 2011
Offline "BKGM Jeepers" wrote: It is possible to build with doing it incrementally. It just takes money and down time. The bigger issue is avoiding duplication in your build (here may be what you refer to as incremental). I build my TJ very incrementally, but my JK is a one shot deal so far. The only waste I have is some C gussets and a diff cover for my front D44, but they added value to the axle's re-sale...
Which would lead me to believe that any money spent on a D30, should I need to upgrade further, would pretty much be lost as they are very common.
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
4:09 am
January 27, 2011
Offline "finder_87" wrote: Tom, axle building is all about wheeling style and tire size. I would feel confident building a hp30 for 35's. But if you EVER think you will go bigger I would jump to a HP44. I wont hesitate to wheel 40s on a built hp44 but again I'm not a full throttle wheeler. Don't waste money on the HP30 if you think the mod bite will continue.
Don't know enough about what kind of wheeling I'm going to be doing. I would like to do some of the local trails, such as Rubicon and Fordyce, and should see what it takes to do those for starters.
If it takes 44/60 then that's what I'll need to work into my plans.
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
4:10 am
January 27, 2011
Offline "JohnDF" wrote: Just for reference, I wheel 38s on a HP D44. It's been through the Hammers 4 years, through Fordyce a gazillion times, and ran through the Little Sluice at the Rubicon. All without breakage. I doubt the HP D30 would have held up so well.
I read your build thread and you have a 44/60 combination. Sounds like I should be looking in that direction.
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
4:57 am
Club Member
September 3, 2008
Offline Some people will disagree but a ford 9 inch is a good cheap option for the rear.
Um...what?
10:20 am
"TomD" wrote: [quote="JohnDF"]Just for reference, I wheel 38s on a HP D44. It's been through the Hammers 4 years, through Fordyce a gazillion times, and ran through the Little Sluice at the Rubicon. All without breakage. I doubt the HP D30 would have held up so well.
I read your build thread and you have a 44/60 combination. Sounds like I should be looking in that direction.
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The HP 44 that most people run has nothing in common with the jeep LP 44 except they are both from dana and can share carriers.
10:40 am
"TomD" wrote: Started getting off-topic on Carl's thread (on lockers) so thought I'd start a new one.
[quote="jsmorrow"]As far as the front axle goes I don't see a big difference in building a HP D30 and a LP D44 if done on factory housings. The upside to scoring a take out 44 with an ARB is that if or when you bend the housing you could re-use the arb and inners if you went to a HP 44 of the same width. With ours, if we used a cherokee 4 bolt caliper outer C we could re use all of our outer stuff too and have the stronger ford/chevy pre-loadable ball joint design and better angles to flip the tie rod. It won't happen, we need to be an inch wider than we are now on each side. If I had known Sue was going to get bit by the trail bug like she did I would never ever ever ever spend the money on the stock front axle like I did. When I did mine we test fit a solid hp 44 but just didn't have enough room between the rad,exhaust, and had front driveshaft/ tranny clearance issues, it only had 3.5" of lift on 33's and I did not want to go wider or higher. Now that it's higher and wider... I think you get the point. Have been looking/ gathering stuff for 2 hp d44's for a while now, Ill let you know if I find stuff you may want to use. If you by new axles I have became a big fan of the Superior Evo shafts. Killed 3 spicer axle joints this year and they took it in stride. I'm not brave enough for ctm's yet but just replaced with something a little stronger that are serviceable. If you end up with a jeep 44 just be sure the gears are set up WITHOUT the crush sleeve for the pinion preload. Anything with a crush sleeve is a 1 bump and done. It will happen at the worst time.
"BKGM Jeepers" wrote: JK D44 fronts are HP. I don't recall what TJ front D44's are...
"jsmorrow" wrote: TJ's are LP. The Argentine Cherokee's had the HP 44's and are hard to come by now. Wish I would have bought 2 front JK 60's when you did.
WOW! So much to take in. It appears there is no way to build a rig without some incrementalism. After reading the posts, a couple of questions come to mind but let me set them up first.
1 - Everything I've read says the HP30 is a decent axle to build on and with stronger axles and a truss will rival the HP44. True/False?
2 - The corporate rear axle (C8.25 w/ 29-spline axle) in it's standard form is also close to the D44 in strength. True/False?
I have the 27-spine but the conversion to 29-spline is a matter of axles, carrier and side gears (pick/pull stuff).
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1 Bad FALSE I think maybe a HP 30 and LP 44. Jeep has and still doe's use HP 44's. They are better than a hp 30 but don't hold a candle to a ford,terra or solid 44. The HP 44 most everyone refers to Is from a fullsize Ford. The CJ guy's use a chevy LP 44. The jeep HP 30 and LP 44 share the same tubes and C's. The 44's carrier is a little beefer but drives on the"weaker" side of the R&P while the HP 30 drives on the "stonger" or "proper" side of the R&P.
2 Have no Idea
1:28 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline Joe's on a roll. Good info.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
1:36 pm
"JohnDF" wrote: Joe's on a roll. Good info.
Roll some of this into the Wiki side of the site as good static info.
1:56 pm
January 27, 2011
Offline "Wh1t3Nukle" wrote: [quote="JohnDF"]Joe's on a roll. Good info.
Roll some of this into the Wiki side of the site as good static info.
AGREED!! There needs to be a way to do a cut/paste to create a "non-comment" sticky.
Hey, while on that idea, there are a number of good tech write-ups and wisdom by Joe, Brad, John and others. Maybe we should have a way to point out threads to be saved for posterity in their own section. Or edited if that info is deep into an existing thread.
Too much "smarts" here not to share with the club and the 4x4 community as a whole. 
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
2:44 pm
January 12, 2007
Offline My experience with axles and running 37" tires: I dumped $2000 dollars into a rear Jeep D44 (ARB, Gears, Dutchman Axles, etc), and got one wheeling season out of it and had a catastrophic failure on the Rubicon. Broke a Dutchman shaft, which wiped out the ARB and when I went to repair it, the housing was bent pretty bad. Upgraded to a RockJock60, and have had no problems yet.
In the front I built a HP44 from an old Ford with ARB, Dutchman shafts, etc and have only broken outer stub shafts and hubs.
If I had to do it all over again, I would have never dumped money into the stock rear D44 and probably wouldn't have built the front 44, rather go 60's right from the get go. Just my experience and opinion.
Best bet is to build some Toyota axles. They are bullet proof! 😈
3:07 pm
January 27, 2011
Offline "Justin" wrote: My experience with axles and running 37" tires: I dumped $2000 dollars into a rear Jeep D44 (ARB, Gears, Dutchman Axles, etc), and got one wheeling season out of it and had a catastrophic failure on the Rubicon. Broke a Dutchman shaft, which wiped out the ARB and when I went to repair it, the housing was bent pretty bad. Upgraded to a RockJock60, and have had no problems yet.
In the front I built a HP44 from an old Ford with ARB, Dutchman shafts, etc and have only broken outer stub shafts and hubs.
If I had to do it all over again, I would have never dumped money into the stock rear D44 and probably wouldn't have built the front 44, rather go 60's right from the get go. Just my experience and opinion.Best bet is to build some Toyota axles. They are bullet proof! 😈
Toyota axles? I guess I never saw that one coming. OK.
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
3:16 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline "Justin" wrote: Best bet is to build some Toyota axles. They are bullet proof! 😈
How much did Keane pay you to say that?
I used to wheel a lot. . .
3:59 pm
January 12, 2007
Offline "finder_87" wrote: Tom, axle building is all about wheeling style and tire size............. Don't waste money on the HP30 if you think the mod bite will continue.
I like the these two above comments.
If you plan on sticking with 35" tires and smaller, and are a conservative driver, a D30 and C8.25 are a great choice if it's the cheapest way to go. However, if you think you will eventually want to go bigger and try more challenging stuff, it might be wise to build a little bigger axle and be done with it and only spend the money once.
5:16 pm
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline You can get a built HPD60 rear for about $3K bolt in. If it's $2K for a D44 - you're looking at a $1K difference for complete piece of mind.
Seems like a no brainer to me...
The front is a different decision. People often go cheaper here because of the large price difference.
6:13 pm
January 27, 2011
Offline "BKGM Jeepers" wrote: You can get a built HPD60 rear for about $3K bolt in. If it's $2K for a D44 - you're looking at a $1K difference for complete piece of mind.
Seems like a no brainer to me...The front is a different decision. People often go cheaper here because of the large price difference.
You are 60s front and rear on your JK, correct?
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
8:03 pm
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline My TJ was 60s front and rear.
My JKU is 60s front and rear.
8:24 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline I would have preferred a D60 in the front, but I just stepped into the good deal on the 44/60 combo. I haven't had any issues with the 44, so I guess it wasn't a bad decision after all. But I think it comes down to how you drive, if I was a lead foot like Rob I'd break 60s like he does.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
8:32 pm
January 27, 2011
Offline "BKGM Jeepers" wrote: My TJ was 60s front and rear.
My JKU is 60s front and rear.
15 minutes after posting I realized you probably had it on your "Reader's Rigs" thread ... you did.
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
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