Ham Radio Info

I think ham radio is awesome. The hardest part about it is getting the license.

I have not looked into it much but I would like to get my license for sure. Getting a license is probably the main reason people don't use it. Legally that is.

How accessible are classes?

What does a decent Ham Radio set up cost?

The club has talked many times about having a class, but it just never happens.

Hey Tyler like we discussed after the meeting I'm am very interested in getting my license for a ham radio operator. I think everyone or at least one person on any run should have a ham radio cause you never know when we would need to get the word out that we are in need of help and sometimes every minute can make the difference.

Josh said What does a decent Ham Radio set up cost?   

My amazon Chinese baofang was 40$. Dustproof and waterproof. I hear people fine on the 146.805 repeater. And those talking have said they were using a type of Baofang and it sounded super clear.

I, too, am interested in getting a license. The main thing for me has been time. I'm hoping to have more of that soon.

k-jeep said I, too, am interested in getting a license. The main thing for me has been time. I'm hoping to have more of that soon.  

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Brian said I think ham radio is awesome. The hardest part about it is getting the license.  I have not looked into it much but I would like to get my license for sure. Getting a license is probably the main reason people don't use it. Legally that is.  How accessible are classes?   

Classes are a little harder to come by... ESPECIALLY for off roaders... Barb and John (Rubicon 805 gurus) do a class that is phenomenal for off roaders. They only do it like twice a year, and it always fills up way in advance. Tests are extremely easy to come by. There is a test in Granite Bay every month, and Carmichael every month, and I believe there is one in Folsom every month (I would need to double check the Folsom one).

Part of this topic and the reason for my question, is I am thinking of starting a class for Offroaders. But I am one of those type A personalities that likes to make sure I have EVERYTHING lined up before I throw in test subjects haha

Most classes you will find are geared towards either a) ham radio as a hobby (HF, contacting other countries, antenna building, electrical circuitry, etc), or b) as a part of the RACES or ARES volunteer network. So they don't really delve into the uses and abilities of using repeaters or APRS for emergency back woods communications... or how to guide a helicopter in to a small clearing to medevac someone... or how to properly communicate with search and rescue as to where you are and how to find you. These are the things I would like to see in an Offroading Ham Class.

Josh said What does a decent Ham Radio set up cost?   

You can get a fully functioning ham radio setup that will give you a reach of 5-10miles (100+ if you are up on a mountain or ridge... greater if you hit a repeater) for about 45-60$ (25$ for the radio, 25$ for the mag mount antenna). If you just want something to talk to people rig to rig on the trail, and be able to hit the 1 or 2 local repeaters for emergency... 25$ radio. Literally, that is it.

If you guys remember Andrew from the meeting (Strawberry Pass guy), I got him all setup on a slightly upgraded radio setup for about 80$. If you want to run a hard wired mobile radio that pumps out much more power and will be able to ensure emergency communications in bad situations, you are looking at starting around $200.

I highly recommend starting at the 25-60$ spot, use the radios, figure out what functionalities you like and dislike. Then, once you are used to using the radio, how to find and hit repeaters, and look into other stuff that Ham Radios offer... then look at hard wired units that have the functions you want, and leave out the functions you dont want.

For instance, my radio does 2m & 70cm (the main "repeater" frequencies), 6m (the "backwoods" frequencies), 10m (the "failsafe" frequencies when the brown mush hits the fan), and CB (listens great, talking is a little distorted, but it works) all in one radio... and it was $250 for the radio, and then I had to do a bunch of voodoo magic in the wiring to make all of the antennas work at the same time without switches.

There are other AWESOME radios for offroaders out there that track your GPS coordinates, they can "find" repeaters for you and automatically tune to them, they can send loved ones your GPS coordinates so that loved ones know you are okay and still moving, they can send your GPS coordinates to others in your group so that others can find you (or search and rescue), etc etc. Lots of possibilities.

k-jeep said I, too, am interested in getting a license. The main thing for me has been time. I'm hoping to have more of that soon.  

About 70% of the Tech exam is etiquette stuff. The rest of the technical stuff can easily be memorized by doing online flash cards 2 hours a night, 5 nights prior to your test date.

The question pool is 426 questions that stay the same for 4 years. They change up the numbers and wording every 4 years. From those 426 questions, they choose 35. From those 35, you need 75% correct to pass.

Most of the tech exam doesn't even really refer to what Offroaders would really need to know and care about. Most of it pertains to the potential capabilities of ham radio (the talking to other countries part), and rules that govern open air communications with other sovereign nations. Even though you will probably never get into that part of ham radio, you need to know WHY getting the license is important, and WHY the rules are so important... because even on the "repeater frequencies" you can get weird atmospheric conditions, and your signal theoretically COULD end up in North Korea... As you can imagine, if yahoos are on the air poking fun of the Un regime, it could be taken the wrong way.

This is all awesome feedback! Keep 'em coming!

An off-roaders class would be awesome and I would definitely be interested. Thanks for the info!

Tyler - K6TLR said There are other AWESOME radios for offroaders out there that track your GPS coordinates, they can "find" repeaters for you and automatically tune to them, they can send loved ones your GPS coordinates so that loved ones know you are okay and still moving, they can send your GPS coordinates to others in your group so that others can find you (or search and rescue), etc etc. Lots of possibilities.  

Now this is what I need as when we go out and have no cell signal my wife always worries about me which is going to make it hard when it's time for our son to start going with me.

Canaan is always asking to go in the Geep or the Suki so I'm really hoping he will be my little side kick on the runs...

Set up a class Tyler and I'll be the first (hopefully) to sign up for it

An off road class would be helpful. What about the club getting freq for our use?

I have attempted to run the club through a class with several failed attempts.  I find that any local ham clubs are not interested in assistant a group to get their ham licenses.  They are slow to respond if responsive at all.

I find ham to be very intimidating for those of us that have not much technical ability with radio frequencies.  I hear the classes are very easy and many people have spouses that will go through the class with them so they can communicate while out on the trail.

I think you will find everyone here eager to go through a class.  We would love to help assist in being some test subjects.

k-jeep said I, too, am interested in getting a license. The main thing for me has been time. I'm hoping to have more of that soon.

Greg: "I find ham to be very intimidating for those of us that have not much technical ability with radio frequencies.  I hear the classes are very easy and many people have spouses that will go through the class with them so they can communicate while out on the trail."

I heartily agree with the above comments. I have been interested in getting a ham license for many years. The time thing is a legitimate concern with me, but even so, I personally consider that to be a pretty lame excuse for my own situation. If you do a quick Google search, there are organizations that do ham radio/"technician" license testing regularly. I think once a month. It's been a while since I checked but there was one regular testing appointment that occurred in Carmichael and another that occurred I think in granite Bay. You can study and take practice tests online. I have taken the practice test several times without even doing any studying and have gotten close to passing or passed. The information is more technical than anything any average person would have any reason to know, but if you actually take a prep course you are virtually guaranteed to pass.

Setting aside the time issue (which we all just simply have to make time): This might be kinda weird, but I would appreciate a very basic explanation of ham radio versus "other" radios such as CB radios, shortwave radio, VHF/UHF ("very-high frequency/ultra-high frequency"😉, and even AM/FM radios. In other words, my understanding is that all radios operate via the length of the radio waves that they generate. A longer wave creates a lower wave frequency and a shorter wave creates a higher wave frequency. CB radios operate on a pre-set range of frequencies (from XX megahertz through YY megahertz). I assume the same is also true for ham radio and every other type of radio. . . ?

So once I have a better understanding of the range/spectrum of frequencies and where each type of radio exists on that spectrum, I then would want to understand how ham radios work in the context of that range/spectrum. Is it similar to CB radio in that a certain range of frequencies are assigned to ham radio users? When you buy a ham radio, is it pre-programmed to broadcast and receive only on that range of frequencies? Can you adjust or modify a ham radio (legally) to broadcast/receive on any frequency (surely not, it can't possibly be legal to go contacting law enforcement or airline pilots, ha ha).

Similar question for "10-meter radios." Are those ham radios? I know it's illegal for non-ham radio licensees to use them, but unlicensed people use them all the time essentially the same as one would use a CB radio.

thanks in advance for any advice/input. I think this club will inspire me to get off my ass and get my license. Although it would be awesome to do it as a club, it's easy enough to make time to attend a class and take a test individually.

Gilbert & Betty said An off road class would be helpful. What about the club getting freq for our use?  

The club would just all agree on a "Simplex" frequency to use... Just don't use the national call channels, and don't impede on already existing repeater frequencies. The 2nd part, would be the harder part, and may take some trial and errors to figure out an available simplex... usually it is not too bad though as all repeaters are protected from inadvertent transmissions.

Gregulator said I have attempted to run the club through a class with several failed attempts.  I find that any local ham clubs are not interested in assistant a group to get their ham licenses.  They are slow to respond if responsive at all. I find ham to be very intimidating for those of us that have not much technical ability with radio frequencies.  I hear the classes are very easy and many people have spouses that will go through the class with them so they can communicate while out on the trail. I think you will find everyone here eager to go through a class.  We would love to help assist in being some test subjects.  

Ya, I have my own issues with some of the local clubs. They just generally aren't interested in offroading, and fall into the category of "why would you put $20,000.00 into a vehicle, and make it so that it doesn't drive well on the road, and take it out just to beat the crap out of" type of people... So we generally don't get a lot of sympathy or empathy from them trying to help out the wheelers in emergency situations. They more or less treat it like "well, why would you put yourself in that situation in the first place" kind of thing... to which my response is always "Because I CAN and it MAKES ME HAPPY!" as I am shelling out another 500$ to fix something haha

Radios can be extremely daunting to understand... but once you begin to understand it all, it is extremely fascinating. Like Buckallred said, there is a huge frequency spectrum. Parts of the spectrum are allocated out to certain uses (911 dispatches, fire dispatches, Maritime Mbile, Aircraft, NOAA Satellites, FRS radios, GMURS radios, Ham, Wi-Fi, RC Cars, drone controllers, the list goes on and on). Pretty much anything that operates "wirelessly" is using some part of the spectrum of radio frequencies. It is freakin amazing lol

Along with different frequencies, there are different modes of communicating over radio (Morse Code, AM, FM Analog, Sideband, RTTY, lots of new digital modes). Buckallred touched on quite a few different things... so I won't get into them all... but I would love to do some sort of presentation.

You guys have sold me on putting together a "class". If you guys want, I could put together a presentation to do at a club meeting for you that would be sort of a general overview as to WHAT ham radio really is and how to conceptualize it. Then, we can try and schedule a Saturday closer to winter that we could do a class where you guys could be my test subjects haha. I would do it sooner, but my work schedule is about to ramp up on Saturdays for the next couple of months. I might not be able to put together a class until November. But the 30-45min presentation, I could do that any time.

Thanks for all the feedback! This has been awesome to know!

buckallred said

Setting aside the time issue (which we all just simply have to make time): This might be kinda weird, but I would appreciate a very basic explanation of ham radio versus "other" radios such as CB radios, shortwave radio, VHF/UHF ("very-high frequency/ultra-high frequency"😉, and even AM/FM radios. In other words, my understanding is that all radios operate via the length of the radio waves that they generate. A longer wave creates a lower wave frequency and a shorter wave creates a higher wave frequency. CB radios operate on a pre-set range of frequencies (from XX megahertz through YY megahertz). I assume the same is also true for ham radio and every other type of radio. . . ?

So once I have a better understanding of the range/spectrum of frequencies and where each type of radio exists on that spectrum, I then would want to understand how ham radios work in the context of that range/spectrum. Is it similar to CB radio in that a certain range of frequencies are assigned to ham radio users? When you buy a ham radio, is it pre-programmed to broadcast and receive only on that range of frequencies? Can you adjust or modify a ham radio (legally) to broadcast/receive on any frequency (surely not, it can't possibly be legal to go contacting law enforcement or airline pilots, ha ha).

Similar question for "10-meter radios." Are those ham radios? I know it's illegal for non-ham radio licensees to use them, but unlicensed people use them all the time essentially the same as one would use a CB radio.

thanks in advance for any advice/input. I think this club will inspire me to get off my ass and get my license. Although it would be awesome to do it as a club, it's easy enough to make time to attend a class and take a test individually.  

Yes, every radio operates within a certain "Frequency range". CB actually operates in the 11 meter band of frequencies, and it uses AM. Think of driving in your daily driver, and you switch your dashboard stereo from FM (87.1 - 107.9) (Yes! Those are actual frequencies that those stations are licensed under) to AM. All of a sudden, AM NEVER ever comes in as crisp and clear as FM does. That is because AM is a different type of mode that uses a ton of bandwidth. FM uses about half as much bandwidth, thus 2 things happen... 1) You get a nice clean signal, and no longer get all the white noise background static coming through as well because the signal is only picking up half the bandwidth, which is all that is really needed for a "normal" persons hearing. and 2) the signal can punch through much further and get through buildings, solid car bodies, trees, etc because it is a narrower bandwidth. There is less signal that the radio needs to receive. Because CB uses AM, it also suffers the problems that your normal AM car stereo faces. But all ham radios operate on some form of FM... so you get the awesome, clean, crisp signal of FM.

Along with the downfalls of using AM, CB also runs on the 11 meter band... which just means it has a pretty long wavelength. This is a bad thing because it require WAY more work to get a clean, clear signal. And a much lower tolerance for having mismatched antenna and vehicle setup systems. If you are just a LITTLE bit off on your CB setup, your signal become terrible and unreadable to anyone past 10 feet from your rig. Ham radio repeaters operate in the 2 meter and 70cm bands in NorCal. Thus, ham radios require much smaller antennas to work properly... which means there is a MUCH HIGHER tolerance if you mess something up or don't install your system just perfectly... you will still get your signal out upwards of 5-20miles on simplex..... and that distance goes up exponentially as you get on top of mountains and ridges.

It is illegal for people to use 10meter radios if you do not have a license.

Hope that helps!

Definitely sounds like you know what your talking about and I am super interested in getting in on the class.  I don't think waiting until November is a big deal.

Please prepare a presentation and we will do it at one of the next meetings.  I think winter is a great time to do a formal class since our area is subject to seasonal closures and we have quite a long time where the only "trails" we can use are a very few snow covered roads.

Here are some of the causes for confusion over radios: the status quo of CBs being what Jeepers use, FRS and GMRS being different but overlapping frequencies, race/commercial radios technically needing a license for the channel (not the user) but the FCC is still trying to decide how to regulate them for "private" jeep use, and HAMs being more formal and complex (and thus scary) to current CB users.

For the Rubicon type runs where there is no cell signal and help is a long way off, going to HAM is a no-brainer.  I think we should at least have and maintain a few HAMs in the club, similar to the forest service chainsaw certification.  For the rest of the club i would prefer to at least go to the race radios.  Either way I am a fan of ditching the CB.

Tyler - K6TLR said

Ham radio repeaters operate in the 2 meter and 70cm bands in NorCal. Thus, ham radios require much smaller antennas to work properly... which means there is a MUCH HIGHER tolerance if you mess something up or don't install your system just perfectly... you will still get your signal out upwards of 5-20miles on simplex..... and that distance goes up exponentially as you get on top of mountains and ridges.

Hope that helps!

Excellent post, thanks for sharing! I personally would love to have you give a presentation during one of our club meetings and I'm sure the other guys (and girls!) will agree.

And sorry, but I have to ask a few quick questions:

1) "Repeaters." The concept is that a ham radio (whether handheld, in a vehicle, or a base station at one's home) broadcasts a signal (on a pre-assigned frequency) to a "repeater," which essentially is an automated radio with a very large antenna that "repeats" the signal. The effect of this is that the signal is re-broadcast (or "repeated"😉 from the very large antenna such that it can extend very far, sometimes around the world depending on atmospheric conditions. Correct? And what if someone responds to the signal? Maybe a dumb question, but anyone wanting to respond to that signal had better have a big antenna (or a repeater) themselves, correct? Otherwise you won't be able to hear them (receive the signal).

2) When you buy a ham radio, what frequencies are you able to broadcast/receive on? Is that predetermined? Can you [legally] modify your ham radio to broadcast/receive on additional frequencies? How does that work?

3) Antennas (or is "antennae?"😉: From your post, I understand that your antenna basically needs to match the frequency in which you try to broadcast. In other words, a CB radio user simply buys an off-the-shelf antenna (whether a whip or a fiberglass, etc), and assuming the antenna is properly grounded and the Standing Wave Ratio ("SWR"😉 is not too badly off, it should work. It should be tuned to work optimally, but even if it is not properly tuned it should at least function. How does this differ for ham radio operators? More specifically, what is your recommendation for a functional antenna for an off-road rig that doesn't break the bank (if such a thing exists, ha ha)?

4) What's the difference between a ham radio and a 10 meter radio? On 10 meter radio, you can broadcast/receive on CB frequencies, correct? Can you also do that on a basic ham radio? Are they the same thing?

kris_olof said Please prepare a presentation and we will do it at one of the next meetings.  I think winter is a great time to do a formal class since our area is subject to seasonal closures and we have quite a long time where the only "trails" we can use are a very few snow covered roads.   Here are some of the causes for confusion over radios: the status quo of CBs being what Jeepers use, FRS and GMRS being different but overlapping frequencies, race/commercial radios technically needing a license for the channel (not the user) but the FCC is still trying to decide how to regulate them for "private" jeep use, and HAMs being more formal and complex (and thus scary) to current CB users. For the Rubicon type runs where there is no cell signal and help is a long way off, going to HAM is a no-brainer.  I think we should at least have and maintain a few HAMs in the club, similar to the forest service chainsaw certification.  For the rest of the club i would prefer to at least go to the race radios.  Either way I am a fan of ditching the CB.    

I'd love to. I will put something together and bring a couple of demo handhelds and a mobile setup. Afterwards, we can go in the parking lot and compare CB clarity to ham clarity.

Race Radios and GMURS setups are awesome for rig to rig... but 1) ham radios start at 1/4 the price, 2) You can't use repeaters with race/GMURS (thus no emergency communications) 3) The license is so easy to get, there really is no reason not to get a ham.

Last year, on the rubicon, there was a really bad reaction to a bee sting with a lady. She went into anaphylectic (sp?) shock and a call was put out on the rubicon repeater for anyone with an epipen. Turns out the Madhatters president was on the trail, had an epipen, and was only 2miles away or so. He got over there, administered the epipen, and then called for a medevac from El Do Sherriff. He was then able to direct the helicopter down into the trail and the paramedics administered another epipen once they assessed the situation. They then flew her out to a hospital. Her life was literally saved thanks to ham radios.

Plus, it makes it SUPER amazingly easy to find your group of people if you are trying to meet up somewhere... no more putting Gold Hills Posse paper plates on trees lol 😉

buckallred said

Excellent post, thanks for sharing! I personally would love to have you give a presentation during one of our club meetings and I'm sure the other guys (and girls!) will agree.

And sorry, but I have to ask a few quick questions:

1) "Repeaters." The concept is that a ham radio (whether handheld, in a vehicle, or a base station at one's home) broadcasts a signal (on a pre-assigned frequency) to a "repeater," which essentially is an automated radio with a very large antenna that "repeats" the signal. The effect of this is that the signal is re-broadcast (or "repeated"😉 from the very large antenna such that it can extend very far, sometimes around the world depending on atmospheric conditions. Correct? And what if someone responds to the signal? Maybe a dumb question, but anyone wanting to respond to that signal had better have a big antenna (or a repeater) themselves, correct? Otherwise you won't be able to hear them (receive the signal).

2) When you buy a ham radio, what frequencies are you able to broadcast/receive on? Is that predetermined? Can you [legally] modify your ham radio to broadcast/receive on additional frequencies? How does that work?

3) Antennas (or is "antennae?"😉: From your post, I understand that your antenna basically needs to match the frequency in which you try to broadcast. In other words, a CB radio user simply buys an off-the-shelf antenna (whether a whip or a fiberglass, etc), and assuming the antenna is properly grounded and the Standing Wave Ratio ("SWR"😉 is not too badly off, it should work. It should be tuned to work optimally, but even if it is not properly tuned it should at least function. How does this differ for ham radio operators? More specifically, what is your recommendation for a functional antenna for an off-road rig that doesn't break the bank (if such a thing exists, ha ha)?

4) What's the difference between a ham radio and a 10 meter radio? On 10 meter radio, you can broadcast/receive on CB frequencies, correct? Can you also do that on a basic ham radio? Are they the same thing?  

1) Essentially... Repeaters are a computer controlled radio (that is then controlled remotely by a Ham... Frank Yost controls the rubicon .805 system). When you tune to a repeater, and then transmit a signal to it, the repeater takes that incoming signal and simultaneously blasts it out at a higher power, from a bigger antenna, from a high up location (usually on top of a mountain or ridge). You don't need an equally adequate antenna in order to receive a signal from a repeater.

2) It depends on the radio... any radio that you are allowed to use as a technician license (for offroading use) will operate on the "Amateur Allocated" frequencies. There are certain ones that will have the ability to receive signals on other frequencies, but the radio will be locked out of transmitting on anything other than the ham frequencies. You can legally receive ANY signal in the air (including cell and Wi-Fi and NOAA Satellite signals... which is fun haha), but in order to transmit, you need to have certain licenses.

3) You pretty much have the gist of it... You need to make sure your SWR is as close to a 1:1 match as you can get it for any antenna. In order to do that, you will need to "tune" the antenna by making it the proper length. Once the antenna is the proper length for what frequencies you are trying to use, the SWR will be low. They go hand in hand. For a CB off the shelf? No idea lol... I would have to do some research. For Ham antennas... You can find many options that will work without any tuning necessary. It depends on if you want a magnetic mount, or if you want to hardwire it in to your rear tire carrier or something. Ham antennas (that operate in the tech license range of frequencies) usually don't require any tuning because they operate at such a smaller frequency wavelenght than CB does. I don't know how else to explain this other than with pictures lol, so you will just have to wait until the presentation at the club meeting for this one. You can get perfectly awesome magnetic mount antennas starting around 25$ for ham. And hardwired antennas around the same price. The better antennas are going to max out around 70$. I highly recommend getting whip style antennae for offroading usage.

4) A 10 meter radio is a ham radio. A ham radio is not necessarily a 10meter radio. You cannot broadcast/receive CB on a 10meter radio (unless it has been modified). CB frequencies run in the 27mhz area(11 meter)... 10 meter ham frequencies run in the 28-29mhz spectrum. A 10 meter radio MIGHT be able to receive CB frequencies out of the factory, but they should not be able to transmit on CB. You need a license to transmit on 10meter bands. Here is a good link that might describe it a little better.... https://www.wearecb.com/10-meter-radios-and-accessories/

Great questions!

Would we want to do a presentation in August or Sept?