3:09 am
Does anyone know where I can find the laws that says Full Hydro steering is illegal in CA. there are a couple threads on Pirate that say full hydro is not illegal to run on the street but i have only heard otherwise. I have seen construction equipment that is street legal with full hydro steering as well as cement trucks. any help would be appreciated.
3:36 am
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline I got noth'n. :dunno:
4:37 am
January 22, 2011
Offline
I drive a cement truck. Have done for almost 6 years. I have been driving commercial class A for 10 years now and every truck I have ever driven has a mechanical link not one has been full hydro. My mixer runs dual steering boxes one on both frame rails. The pass box is hydraulic but driver is mechanical linked.
5:12 am
January 22, 2011
Offline It looks like a mix of stuff between messing with "manufactures original equipment" using heim joints witch are not dot approved for highway use, an having your steering tight enough. There are definitely laws on steering play, and safly maneuvering vehicle if lost power.
5:30 am
I had looked into this awhile back and this is what I came away with ---
Here is link to CA Vehicle Code: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vct...../vc/vc.htm
I looked at the Vehicle Code ToC -- Division 12 for Vehicle Equipment
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vct...../vctoc.htm
You won't find anything explicit with regards to steering here. It's all couched under "safe operating condition", which can be inferred as by original design.
Various hydraulic systems used in steering components will be under the purview of the application: commercial, loading, GVW, speed, control, etc.
Additionally there is this synopsis by another 3rd Party:
http://www.liftlaws.com/is_full_hydro_s ... _legal.htm
My deduction is to NOT use full hydro for street legal passenger vehicle. Therefore....BUILD a trail rig ONLY. 😀
Probably not the answer you wanted, but in no way am I an authority on it. (assumes I looked in all the right places)
12:27 pm
July 15, 2005
Offline Most cops wouldn't know what to look for to see if your steering was full hydro or not. I can guarantee you that if you go full hydro and drive through Placer County, I will cite you and tow your jeep for unsafe vehicle. Then i will go to court with a ton of documentation showing how often full hydro fails or lags on steering input. I will also go with documentation from company's like PSC and Howe stating their full hydro systems are not for use on the street. I will bring my personal first hand knowledge of wheeling with people who have full hydro and seeing the countless times their steering quit working for no reason.
Full hydro has no business on roadways. If it was a good idea don't you think manufacturers would have already gone to it.
__________________
'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
3:35 pm
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline "RobD" wrote: Most cops wouldn't know what to look for to see if your steering was full hydro or not. I can guarantee you that if you go full hydro and drive through Placer County, I will cite you and tow your jeep for unsafe vehicle. Then i will go to court with a ton of documentation showing how often full hydro fails or lags on steering input. I will also go with documentation from company's like PSC and Howe stating their full hydro systems are not for use on the street. I will bring my personal first hand knowledge of wheeling with people who have full hydro and seeing the countless times their steering quit working for no reason.
Full hydro has no business on roadways. If it was a good idea don't you think manufacturers would have already gone to it.
Rob, what about hydro assist? I'm about to change to it, and I know you run it. OK for street use?
3:54 pm
It still uses the mechanical linkage (i.e., drag link, tie rods, etc.) so if the assist fails you're still in "safe operating condition". At least that is the argument for supporting its use on street legal usage. 😀
I'm definitely interested in Rob's upper echelon input on this.
4:54 pm
July 15, 2005
Offline Assist is fine. If the ram or any portion of the hydraulic assist fails, you still have mechanical steering. By adding a single ended ram to your stock steering set up, you are not changing the mechanics, you are only adding assistance to your mechanically engineered system.
Civilly, anyone who changes a vehicles stock steering set up could be and would most likely be found guilty in a civil case if sued. Therefore any one of us who has altered from what came with your jeep would probably be found guilty in a court off law and held civilly liable if someone died or was injured and reasonable doubt was established that your steering was the fault of the accident. Remember that in a civil case, only reasonable doubt must be established.
I personally do not want anyone driving around on the road with full hydraulic steering. You would be putting the public and most importantly, you would be putting my family or me in danger while you are driving around. 4x4’s with full hydraulic have no reason to be on the road. Once you feel the need to go there, you need to put your rig permanently on a trailer and leave it there until it hits the dirt or an approved dual purpose road.
People mentioned dump trucks, etc. running full hydraulic steering. That is totally different. Those rigs were designed with that system and use quality parts specifically engineered for that rig.
Full hydraulic systems for 4x4’s are not designed for use on the roadways and therefore should not be used on public roadways. If people want to kill themselves, do it somewhere else, not on the roads where you can kill innocent people when the hydraulics fail!
I know this is all my opinion, but like I said before, I wheel with a lot of people running full hydraulic, and I have seen how often the hydraulics fail or lag before you get steering input. Not safe for the roadways.
This is the warning that comes from the manufacturer with their full hydro systems.
IMPORTANT NOTES:
These products may not be street legal in your area. Check local laws.
Regardless of legality, hydraulic steering may not be safe for street use. These steering components and systems are intended purely for off-road use.
"BKGM Jeepers" wrote: [quote="RobD"]Most cops wouldn't know what to look for to see if your steering was full hydro or not. I can guarantee you that if you go full hydro and drive through Placer County, I will cite you and tow your jeep for unsafe vehicle. Then i will go to court with a ton of documentation showing how often full hydro fails or lags on steering input. I will also go with documentation from company's like PSC and Howe stating their full hydro systems are not for use on the street. I will bring my personal first hand knowledge of wheeling with people who have full hydro and seeing the countless times their steering quit working for no reason.
Full hydro has no business on roadways. If it was a good idea don't you think manufacturers would have already gone to it.
Rob, what about hydro assist? I'm about to change to it, and I know you run it. OK for street use?
__________________
'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
10:03 pm
Dang I kicked a hornets’ nest.... 
Rob just to clarify I don’t plan on going to full hydraulic anytime soon. I was just doing research on different systems on pirate and came across a lot of debate as to the legality of Full Hydro.
With that said, I am experiencing a ton of lag in response on my system. I have already gone through one TC pump and the new pump is no better. I feel that PSC doesn’t really care about their customers from all the conversations I’ve had with them in the last week and am to the point of throwing in the towel with them.
Anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to improve my steering.
Has anyone used Howe pumps? I hear they are pretty reliable.
11:41 pm
July 15, 2005
Offline Your steering lag is due to the large diameter ram you are using. If I remember right, you are running a 2 inch PSC ram. That cylinder is way too big for what you are using it for, Steering input is really slow on a cylinder that large (2” is a trail cylinder where you don’t always need the fast response.) That is why when I built mine, I went with a 1.75. My steering response is fast and I have never burned up a pump. I don't daily drive mine though, and I am sure if I did, I would go through an occasional pump too. Dropping the diameter of your ram will help the problem.
I also run a 4 inch pulley on my pump not the stock 5 inch pulley.
What PSC pump are you running?
Putting a cylinder assist on isn't just about bolting it up, you need to match the cylinder, pump/pulley, and the box together as a unit otherwise your pump and steering will pay the penalty. You also need to run a really high quality cooler for the system and make sure it is somewhere where it gets good airflow.
"LJ3" wrote: Dang I kicked a hornets’ nest....
Rob just to clarify I don’t plan on going to full hydraulic anytime soon. I was just doing research on different systems on pirate and came across a lot of debate as to the legality of Full Hydro.
With that said, I am experiencing a ton of lag in response on my system. I have already gone through one TC pump and the new pump is no better. I feel that PSC doesn’t really care about their customers from all the conversations I’ve had with them in the last week and am to the point of throwing in the towel with them.
Anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to improve my steering.
Has anyone used Howe pumps? I hear they are pretty reliable.
__________________
'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
11:58 pm
2" is big enough to steer the rig without linkage. Rob D has the good choice @ 1.75. Mine is 1.5 and is very fast, but does not have the power that the larger ram would have. A good cooler and perhaps a fan if the cooler is not in the air stream. Mine has a PSC-SP1405X P pump with a 10"cooler and matching fan running through an Oberg filter and a Derale 160* switch so I don't have to keep an eye on it. Mark[Image Can Not Be Found]
1:18 pm
[quote="RobD"]Your steering lag is due to the large diameter ram you are using. If I remember right, you are running a 2 inch PSC ram. That cylinder is way too big for what you are using it for, Steering input is really slow on a cylinder that large (2” is a trail cylinder where you don’t always need the fast response.) That is why when I built mine, I went with a 1.75. My steering response is fast and I have never burned up a pump. I don't daily drive mine though, and I am sure if I did, I would go through an occasional pump too. Dropping the diameter of your ram will help the problem.
I also run a 4 inch pulley on my pump not the stock 5 inch pulley.
What PSC pump are you running?
Putting a cylinder assist on isn't just about bolting it up, you need to match the cylinder, pump/pulley, and the box together as a unit otherwise your pump and steering will pay the penalty. You also need to run a really high quality cooler for the system and make sure it is somewhere where it gets good airflow.
Well your right that Im running the larger ram. however my jeep doesnt see a lot of pavement so i might just keep it like that. the new High Performance Replacement Pump i bought from PSE has the 4" pulley installed on it so hopefully it will run a little better as soon as they send it back to me. installed it properly and the thing whined like crazy at around 3000rpm's
I will probably have to reroute my 12" cooler to infront of the jeep. it probably doesnt get enough air flow under the hood.
Thanks for the advice
1 Guest(s)
