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Gold Hills Posse 4×4 Club · Folsom, CA

HPD44 vs HPD44

  1. JohnDF Member Joined: July 2003
    #19 Apr 2009, 7:54 PM

    or, my axle vs Rob's axle...



    So what's the difference and why does his break and mine doesn't?



    I think it has something to do with my Superior shafts and his Warn shafts. They are both strong shafts but the Superiors actually are made to twist 180 degrees before breaking. Not sure about Warns'. That could be the difference.



    Also, there might be something to do with my 5-speed manual vs. his 3-speed automatic transmissions.



    We were discussing it at length this week. What are your thoughts?

    I used to wheel a lot. . .
  2. Justin Subscriber
    #29 Apr 2009, 8:20 PM

    Lasr year he had u-joint failure and we didn't. :? I wonder if the length of the axles have anything to do with it. ?

  3. Fred Subscriber
    #39 Apr 2009, 8:43 PM

    I would think Rob's automatic transmission would actually be easier on the axles since there should be less load shock. The auto trans should cushion it just a bit over a standard transmission.



    How would you compare your driving styles?

  4. JohnDF started this Member Joined: July 2003
    #49 Apr 2009, 8:46 PM

    It's his short side that's breaking. Ours are even shorter. So that's probably not it.

    My money is on the Warn shafts. Strong, but maybe not flexible.

    I used to wheel a lot. . .
  5. Fred Subscriber
    #59 Apr 2009, 8:56 PM

    I've heard that regardless of the axle type, the short side is more prone to break. If there's any twisting in the axle it doesn't have as much axle length to spread it out on.



    Edit) Check out the description for these Dana 35 axles. They mention the short side versus long side "ductility"



    http://www.shopwiki.com/detail/?q=Super ... +Rear+Axle

  6. JohnDF started this Member Joined: July 2003
    #69 Apr 2009, 9:12 PM

    Driving style...we both get on it pretty hard...Rob gets on it harder and I tend to get off it faster.

    But they aren't breaking while he's getting on it.

    It's gotta be the shafts.

    I used to wheel a lot. . .
  7. Dan-H Subscriber
    #710 Apr 2009, 6:19 AM

    Are the steering angles the same?



    Does your narrower axle limit how far you can turn before you hit a stop?



    Does Rob's wider axle allow him to turn tighter, which would put more stress on the joint and the shaft?



    Are you both running CTMs?

    Closed Mondays.
  8. JohnDF started this Member Joined: July 2003
    #810 Apr 2009, 6:51 AM

    Both running CTMs, turning radius is the same, his axles are wider but he is only one inch wider fom the outside of the tires (I have spacers and wider wheels), and most of his breaks come from steering straight anyways. He definately did much better with the CTMs this year. The CTM didn't even hickup when he tore apart the axle. My money is still on the Warn shafts not twisting like the Superior shafts.

    I used to wheel a lot. . .
  10. JohnDF started this Member Joined: July 2003
    #1010 Apr 2009, 7:27 AM

    Yup...That's pretty much what the Superior guys told us too. Also, the Superior axles are hardened (heated) a second time after the splines are cut (or rolled).



    I know Rob is talking about replacing his Warn shafts with Superior shafts. Of course, he really wants to sell his 44 and build a 60 😏

    I used to wheel a lot. . .
  11. Howdy Subscriber
    #1110 Apr 2009, 8:51 AM

    It would be interesting to pull your shafts out and see if they show any signs of twist.

  12. RobD Subscriber
    #1210 Apr 2009, 9:07 AM

    My bet is on the Warn shafts and my turning radius which is much tighter than John's. You can see where my yokes are rubbing together at full turn which is probably putting stress on the axles and hub causing them to fail from fatigue. I am going to sell the 44 and put a 60 in. I am done with the 44.



    I would also say the auto tranny and 4:3 Atlas are contributors. With the auto, it is much easier to keep on the gas while the tires are bound on an obstacle. With a stick, you start to get engine lug and tend to back off much quicker than you would with an auto.

    __________________ 'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
  13. JohnDF started this Member Joined: July 2003
    #1310 Apr 2009, 9:23 AM
    "RobD" wrote: turning radius which is much tighter than John's

    Ya...dream on buddy 🙄

    Same knuckles, similar widths, your's is longer between the knuckles and mine is longer outside of the knuckles, and you have a longer wheelbase. I bet there isn't enough of a difference to tell.

    I used to wheel a lot. . .
  14. RobD Subscriber
    #1410 Apr 2009, 9:41 AM

    I would bet there is a huge diff. Our knuckles are not the same, our pitman arms are not the same, our steering arms are not the same, tie rod and drag link are different. My steering was set up for high degree of turn by increasing the steering arm lenght and pitman arm length, then I did the stupid thing and cut off my steering stops and causing my axle yokes to touch and bind and full turn. We can measure how much steering throw you have and I have and tell the diff. I am betting you are around the 6 inch range and mine is 8 1/4





    "JohnDF" wrote: [quote="RobD"]turning radius which is much tighter than John's

    Ya...dream on buddy 🙄

    Same knuckles, similar widths, your's is longer between the knuckles and mine is longer outside of the knuckles, and you have a longer wheelbase. I bet there isn't enough of a difference to tell.

    __________________ 'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
  15. RobD Subscriber
    #1510 Apr 2009, 9:45 AM

    O-ya, and going wider without changing steering arm and pitman arm geometry decreases your steering throw and turning radius

    __________________ 'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
  16. JohnDF started this Member Joined: July 2003
    #1610 Apr 2009, 9:48 AM
    "RobD" wrote: O-ya, and going wider without changing steering arm and pitman arm geometry decreases your steering throw and turning radius

    😳 my bad 😂

    Teach me to argue about stuff I don't know anything about 😈

    I used to wheel a lot. . .
  17. RobD Subscriber
    #1710 Apr 2009, 9:53 AM

    Who's your Daddy 😂





    "JohnDF" wrote: [quote="RobD"]O-ya, and going wider without changing steering arm and pitman arm geometry decreases your steering throw and turning radius

    😳 my bad 😂

    Teach me to argue about stuff I don't know anything about 😈

    __________________ 'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
  18. JohnDF started this Member Joined: July 2003
    #1810 Apr 2009, 10:00 AM
    "RobD" wrote: Who's your Daddy 😂

    Well...you do kinda look like him 😂

    I used to wheel a lot. . .
  19. Gregulator Member Joined: February 2012
    #1910 Apr 2009, 1:11 PM

    John, I thought you had a tera 50 front end?



    Rob Let me know how much for your front end. I might have a buddy interested in it.

    Um...what?
  20. JohnDF started this Member Joined: July 2003
    #2010 Apr 2009, 1:16 PM

    It is, but the numbskull that built it used all D44 stuff. So, it's just a glorified 44 🙄 But it's held up for 3 years running some pretty tough stuff with 37" tires 😏

    I used to wheel a lot. . .
  21. JohnDF started this Member Joined: July 2003
    #2110 Apr 2009, 1:19 PM

    BTW...Rob checked with a shop (can't remember the name). They said it was the combo of the automatic and the Atlas that's killing his axles. He said he couldn't really comment on the Warn vs Superior twist thing, but he did say that he's seen more Warn shafts break than Superiors.



    Just another (one of many) reason to stick with a manual transmission 😂

    I used to wheel a lot. . .
  22. Gregulator Member Joined: February 2012
    #2210 Apr 2009, 1:19 PM

    Could you replace the outers? Does it have 60 c's on it or 44 c's?

    Um...what?
  23. JohnDF started this Member Joined: July 2003
    #2310 Apr 2009, 1:22 PM

    All I'd have to do is replace the inner seal, but that would take some machining. Not worth the hastle at this point. Whenever I decide to stretch and go with 40s, I'll look into getting it done.

    I used to wheel a lot. . .
  24. Guest former user
    #2411 Apr 2009, 7:09 PM
    "JohnDF" wrote: [quote="RobD"]Who's your Daddy 😂

    Well...you do kinda look like him 😂

    Probably about the same age too. 😂

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