2:20 pm
January 27, 2011
Offline
I'm looking at at advantages/disadvantages to both. Currently, I know of no one in the club running electric actuation though there seems to be no reason not to. Just want some thoughts. Either way, there will be OBA on my rig in the not too distant future. Thanks!
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
2:31 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline ARB.../thread 
I used to wheel a lot. . .
3:33 pm
"JohnDF" wrote: ARB.../thread
Too easy and just flat wrong. I know all the cool kids run ARBs but...
I put an Eaton e-locker in my old Cruiser and currently have the Nissan e-locker in my Frontier. The Toyota TRD packages come with an e-locker. I don't know who makes the Nissan or Toyota lockers.
I chose the e-locker in the Cruiser because of the cost, simplicity, and reliability. I didn't have to add a compressor immediately which saved me a fair amount of money at the time. An electronic locker is remarkably simple system outside of the axle. One positive wire, one ground, one switch, and you're good. It's easy to repair on the trail. No leaking air lines or fittings to track down. Just a few wires. I always carry spare wire so it wasn't anything to add to my tool box and if something went wrong it would have been real easy to just jump a wire a limp out.
I didn't have any choice in the Frontier but I have no complaints. I need to do a little wiring so it will engage in 4 high but that's just Nissan trying to keep people from being stupid. 😀
I've never had an air locker but I've never been one of the cool kids either. 🙁
3:51 pm
July 15, 2005
Offline Electronics are subject to failure from Vibration of wheeling, failure due to moisture, failure due to the fact they are electric.
Air is air, a few dollars in spare parts to fix anything that might fail on the trail. I can fix almost anything that fails on the trail in less than 5 minutes. If an O ring happens to fail, I can pull the carrier and replace the O ring in 30 minutes.
You get what you pay for, if you want cheap, get an elocker, if you want proven quality, ARB is a no brainer. Every Toyota I have owned had an elocker. Everyone one of them failed. The elocker in my current Toyota truck hasnt worked in a couple years.
"JohnDF" wrote: ARB.../thread
__________________
'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
5:52 pm
Club Member
September 3, 2008
Offline So moral of the story, don't buy a Toyota?
Um...what?
6:17 pm
January 27, 2011
Offline Bender: "I chose the e-locker in the Cruiser because of the cost, simplicity, and reliability. I didn't have to add a compressor immediately which saved me a fair amount of money at the time. An electronic locker is remarkably simple system outside of the axle. One positive wire, one ground, one switch, and you're good. It's easy to repair on the trail."
All that seems reasonable enough, thanks!
RobD: "Electronics are subject to failure from Vibration of wheeling, failure due to moisture, failure due to the fact they are electric."
I'm not sure I would agree with this. The US military uses Eaton on all the HMMWVs. Also, there is plenty of electronics involved with the ARB system … compressor, solenoid, switches (both automatic and manual).
"You get what you pay for, if you want cheap, get an elocker, if you want proven quality, ARB is a no brainer. Every Toyota I have owned had an elocker. Everyone one of them failed. The elocker in my current Toyota truck hasnt worked in a couple years."
For a D30HP (from on-line retailer): ARB ($997) vs Eaton E-locker ($782). Not sure about your definition of the word "cheap" but neither are included in my definition of "chump change". :bling:
I do appreciate the ability for trail-side repair with a few well thought out spares for both systems. 
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
6:45 pm
"finder_87" wrote: So moral of the story, don't buy a Toyota?
That's the moral of most of Rob's stories. 🙄 
I'm with Tom on the vibration argument. You're going to have to give me some proof of that. Waterproof electrical connections are also not that difficult.
To be clear about the cost... most of the savings with the e-locker was because I didn't have to buy a compressor at the time. Neither is cheap.
7:15 pm
Club Member
September 3, 2008
Offline Couple of guys at my work are frustrated with their arb lines because their exhaust seems to keep burning holes in the lines.
I've also heard that arbs can be affected by cold weather, ie snow. Is this true? Can they freeze?
Um...what?
7:34 pm
September 25, 2011
Offline
Two thoughts here..
1) you can upgrade the plastic blue lines for stainless steel ones and you won't get holes anymore.
2) it's not so much that they don't work in the snow as when the diff gets cold things like the gasket or oring could shrink and could cause an air leak which would cause operational issues.
It just depends on how cold that diff gets..
7:49 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline You are going to need an air system anyways, so that's a non-issue. Unless you expect everybody else to supply you with air after the runs. Save your pennies a few extra months.
Wheeling on the same ARB lockers for years with zero issues. Not snow, heat, water, dirt; Nothing bothers these lockers. Wheeled with tons of guys running ARBs, same thing; No issues.
Repairs to the air line are usually easy with a pocket knife, a coupler, and about 2 minutes. More serious repairs require a small/cheap repair kit and about 10 minutes.
Most of the issues I've seen with ARBs come down to poor install, like running their airlines too close to the exhaust (use the other side of the vehicle)
I have no experience with elockers so I won't comment on them. I've just seen everybody have such good luck with ARBs with their durability, on-road manners, and off-road grip, and the choice of being open or spooled, that it just doesn't make any sense to me to gamble on anything different.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
7:53 pm
May 4, 2004
Offline One of my thoughts on choosing the ARB was to use the same thing most of the other people I wheel with use. Makes it easier to borrow spare parts in case you've already used or forgotten your own.
10:38 pm
"JohnDF" wrote: You are going to need an air system anyways, so that's a non-issue. Unless you expect everybody else to supply you with air after the runs. Save your pennies a few extra months.
There are plenty of portable units out there. In my case it would have taken more than a few months of savings and I didn't see a huge benefit. That said, I'm not sure I'd make the same choice now. I just don't see it as black and white as you and Rob.
11:37 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline "Bender" wrote: [quote="JohnDF"]I just don't see it as black and white as you and Rob.
Not really black and white, more like what I've experienced. Like I said, I have no experience with elockers so I'm NOT running those down. I have had auto lockers though and would never go that route again. So my vote is an emphatical ARB.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
2:11 pm
July 15, 2005
Offline Considering I have over 20 years of first hand experience with both elockers and ARB's, I have had problems with the elockers on all 4 trucks that had them. I have wheeled with hundreds of people with every type of locker made and the two lockers I have seen the most problems with are the elockers and OX lockers. That is why I am black and white. It's not my money, Im just giving my opinion on both since I actually own both and have real world experience running both on the trail.
"Bender" wrote: [quote="JohnDF"]You are going to need an air system anyways, so that's a non-issue. Unless you expect everybody else to supply you with air after the runs. Save your pennies a few extra months.
There are plenty of portable units out there. In my case it would have taken more than a few months of savings and I didn't see a huge benefit. That said, I'm not sure I'd make the same choice now. I just don't see it as black and white as you and Rob.
__________________
'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
2:36 pm
July 15, 2005
Offline Really, you are going to use the military as an example. The US military doesn't use a product because it is the best, they do it because someone won a bid for the contract. I have been in the military and believe me, they own and issue a lot of crap.
As far a fix ability on the trail, all the ARB components that might fail are under my hood and can be replace or fixed in minutes. 95% of an elockers is is in your diff. If my solenoid fails, it takes me 30 seconds to put a new one on. Where is the solenoid or "electromagnet" for an elocker. That's right, it's in your differential.
People try and use the argument about leaking air lines and burning them on the exhaust. If your exhaust is burning the line then you ran the line in the wrong place. If the line leaks then it takes 30 seconds to fix it with a .50 cent line coupler. In all the years of rock crawling I have, I have had to repair a leaking line 3 times. Each time it probably took me 10 seconds to cut and couple the line and be back on the trail.
"TomD" wrote: Bender: "I chose the e-locker in the Cruiser because of the cost, simplicity, and reliability. I didn't have to add a compressor immediately which saved me a fair amount of money at the time. An electronic locker is remarkably simple system outside of the axle. One positive wire, one ground, one switch, and you're good. It's easy to repair on the trail."
All that seems reasonable enough, thanks!RobD: "Electronics are subject to failure from Vibration of wheeling, failure due to moisture, failure due to the fact they are electric."
I'm not sure I would agree with this. The US military uses Eaton on all the HMMWVs. Also, there is plenty of electronics involved with the ARB system … compressor, solenoid, switches (both automatic and manual).
"You get what you pay for, if you want cheap, get an elocker, if you want proven quality, ARB is a no brainer. Every Toyota I have owned had an elocker. Everyone one of them failed. The elocker in my current Toyota truck hasnt worked in a couple years."
For a D30HP (from on-line retailer): ARB ($997) vs Eaton E-locker ($782). Not sure about your definition of the word "cheap" but neither are included in my definition of "chump change". :bling:I do appreciate the ability for trail-side repair with a few well thought out spares for both systems.
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__________________
'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
2:49 pm
July 15, 2005
Offline If the exhaust is burning the line, the solution is to move the lines. Easy fix!
I have wheeled a lot in freezing temps, ice, and snow. I have never seen nor heard of anyone have that problem. Your lines would have to have a lot of condensation in them for that to occurr, but generally your air lines are coated with oil from air release when you turn the locker off, so freezing would not be likly since oil doesn't freeze.
Has freezing ever happened? Probably, but living where we all do, it's the last thing I would ever worry about.
"finder_87" wrote: Couple of guys at my work are frustrated with their arb lines because their exhaust seems to keep burning holes in the lines.
I've also heard that arbs can be affected by cold weather, ie snow. Is this true? Can they freeze?
__________________
'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
2:57 pm
January 27, 2011
Offline Agreed ... burning holes in hose is like chaffing wires as both are signs of poor installation. The idea that parts that are likely to need service are more accessible in the ARB system is BIG as is commonality of parts.
Honestly, I was leaning toward electric as that is where my highest comfort level is but comfort on the trail is most important.
Thanks for all the input.
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
3:05 pm
July 15, 2005
Offline These are everyone's opinions, you need to do what you want and can afford. If you plan on dumping the Dana 30 someday, then I would go with your cheapest option now.
"TomD" wrote: Agreed ... burning holes in hose is like chaffing wires as both are signs of poor installation. The idea that parts that are likely to need service are more accessible in the ARB system is BIG as is commonality of parts.
Honestly, I was leaning toward electric as that is where my highest comfort level is but comfort on the trail is most important.
Thanks for all the input.
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__________________
'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."- Ronald Reagan
3:11 pm
Club Member
September 3, 2008
Offline Has anybody had experience with the zip locker? It's the air locker made by Yukon. I've heard they bought ARB's previous patent and remade a few parts and put a lifetime warranty on it. Don't quote me on the warranty. Look into it for your self. But what I like about them is it uses air to disengage. So if you have a line failure or anything, it defaults to a locked differential. I thought that was cool for all the competitions I run.
Um...what?
3:21 pm
Club Member
September 3, 2008
Offline5:06 pm
"finder_87" wrote:
This answers my question I guess. Pretty cool video. :hack:
Agreed a broken axle shaft is preferred over a broken carrier.
How often do vehicles generate up over 2000 ft-lbs (excluding diesels)? These designs have margin built into them and I'd probably assume factor of 2 to 3. Just a guess on my part.
One note about the ARB is that test was back in 2009. I know that the main case design has changed from a 2 piece design to a single piece design from a recent query I had sent in.
3:53 am
"Wh1t3Nukle" wrote:
How often do vehicles generate up over 2000 ft-lbs (excluding diesels)?
Regularly. Don't forget that you're looking at torque at the axle shaft so you have the transmission, t-case, and axle gearing to worry about. Hop a wheel and you're at 2,000 real quick.
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