8:52 pm
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline
So, if 1000lbs of batteries = 1 gal of gas, and a Volt gets 60-80 miles on a charge (I've heard 40), how come a Tesla 4-door is currently testing a 220 mile range on their battery packs, with an optional pack that gets 310? I don't believe they are adding an extra 2000 lbs of batteries to their models. I beleive the two companies are using different battery technologies...
I guess that's why Toyota just signed Tesla to create the all-electric RAV-4 (they've already delivered a test vehicle with a range of 200 miles).
9:21 pm
Tesla uses the Li-Ion at 4x the cost of NiMH, I used Lead Acid 15 years ago when Li-Ion was just a dream.
Lead-acid $0.17/Whr 146,000 Joules/kg
NiMH $0.99/Whr 340,000 Joules/kg
NiCad $1.50 /Whr 140,000 Joules/kg
Lithium-ion $4.27/Whr 460,000 Joules/kg
Interesting that the existing Ford Hybrids use a Toyota drivetrain and now Toyota teams with Tesla which is a Lotus and Lotus uses Toyota a drivetrain and the Toyota Matrix is the same as the Pontiac Vibe that no longer exists, so now I'm really confused.
9:49 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline "RockinCrawler" wrote: I don't understand the aversion to the Prius.
They are UGLY.../thread
I used to wheel a lot. . .
11:36 pm
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline "RockinCrawler" wrote: Tesla uses the Li-Ion at 4x the cost of NiMH, I used Lead Acid 15 years ago when Li-Ion was just a dream.
Lead-acid $0.17/Whr 146,000 Joules/kg
NiMH $0.99/Whr 340,000 Joules/kg
NiCad $1.50 /Whr 140,000 Joules/kg
Lithium-ion $4.27/Whr 460,000 Joules/kgInteresting that the existing Ford Hybrids use a Toyota drivetrain and now Toyota teams with Tesla which is a Lotus and Lotus uses Toyota a drivetrain and the Toyota Matrix is the same as the Pontiac Vibe that no longer exists, so now I'm really confused.
We'll toyota is great at hybrids so others use them. Toyota is not so good at all-electrics. They teamed up with what appears to be a leader in the battery/electronics management segment.
I think the GM Volt is a joke. 40 miles total and $40K to own... At least the leaf is targeted for 100 miles at $32K.
3:19 am
"RockinCrawler" wrote: I don't understand the aversion to the Prius.
I don't have an aversion to the Prius (but they are ugly 😀 ) but, even used, I think you can get a lot more car with similar efficiency at a price that will save you in the long run. If you're just looking for short distance city commuting, I'd buy a golf cart. 😀 Until battery technology takes a gigantic leap I'm just not buying into the hybrid technology as either cost saving or environmentally sound.
4:48 am
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline Tonight we test drove two cars and looked at several others...
We test drove the new Outback. We really didn't like it. The redesign looks nice but it drives like a schoo bus. It's a much bigger and heavier vehicle and it really took away from the sporty feel we like so much about the former model.
We also test drove a Mazda 6. That was a fun car to drive. It felt light and nimble with decent power in the four cylinder motor. It also had a much sportier look and feel than the Nissan. Definitely a front runner so far if we decide to trade in the Subi.
We also looked at the dodge cars including the Charger. Nothing Dodge made excited us. They all felt cheaply made and were more money. That's a losing combination in my book.
We popped over to the Jeep dealer, but they really didn't have anything worth testy driving, except maybe the 40,000 dollar Grand Cherokee, but who wants to spend 40,000 on a [stock] Jeep?
The search continues, but the Mazda was certainly a nice drive.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
6:11 am
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline "JohnDF" wrote: Tonight we test drove two cars and looked at several others...
We test drove the new Outback. We really didn't like it. The redesign looks nice but it drives like a schoo bus. It's a much bigger and heavier vehicle and it really took away from the sporty feel we like so much about the former model.
We also test drove a Mazda 6. That was a fun car to drive. It felt light and nimble with decent power in the four cylinder motor. It also had a much sportier look and feel than the Nissan. Definitely a front runner so far if we decide to trade in the Subi.
We also looked at the dodge cars including the Charger. Nothing Dodge made excited us. They all felt cheaply made and were more money. That's a losing combination in my book.
We popped over to the Jeep dealer, but they really didn't have anything worth testy driving, except maybe the 40,000 dollar Grand Cherokee, but who wants to spend 40,000 on a [stock] Jeep?
The search continues, but the Mazda was certainly a nice drive.
Be sure to buy your Mazda used if you get one. They take a HUGE depreciation hit by driving a new one off the lot! Used, many are great buys. They are sporty and reasonably priced if you're looking at a 1-2 year old car. One of my employees has a MazdaSpeed-3. It is a pretty fun car for younger people. It was fast and wasn't too expensive.
1:05 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline "BKGM Jeepers" wrote:
Be sure to buy your Mazda used if you get one. They take a HUGE depreciation hit by driving a new one off the lot! Used, many are great buys. They are sporty and reasonably priced if you're looking at a 1-2 year old car. One of my employees has a MazdaSpeed-3. It is a pretty fun car for younger people. It was fast and wasn't too expensive.
We have been checking out CarMax.com. We still have some test driving to do, but we'll definitely check out all of our options. I'm still crossing my fingers for a Camaro 
I used to wheel a lot. . .
3:05 pm
my vote is for the cheby. then i can saw that john and johndf drives a transformer to work.
3:38 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline I'd be happy with...
My current Jeep
My current truck
a 4-door Rubicon with 35" tires
and a Camaro SS
Dare to dream BIG 
I used to wheel a lot. . .
3:47 pm
"JohnDF" wrote: I'd be happy with...
My current Jeep
My current truck
a 4-door Rubicon with 35" tires
and a Camaro SSDare to dream BIG
That would make me happy too!
4:35 pm
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline Soooo, the wife drives what?
Maybe your truck...
4:38 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline "BKGM Jeepers" wrote: Soooo, the wife drives what?
Who cares, she can get her own car
I used to wheel a lot. . .
4:42 pm
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline You're beginning to sound like me, but I had to get her vehicle before my toys...
5:12 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline "BKGM Jeepers" wrote: You're beginning to sound like me, but I had to get her vehicle before my toys...
It'll never happen, but it's fun to think about.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
8:17 pm
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline We test drove the Toyota Camry today. Nice car, not as fun to drive as the Mazda, but a very nice car that seems like it's built well.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
8:18 pm
"JohnDF" wrote: We test drove the Toyota Camry today. Nice car, not as fun to drive as the Mazda, but a very nice car that seems like it's built well.
camry hybrid? 
9:53 pm
"JohnDF" wrote: [quote="RockinCrawler"]I don't understand the aversion to the Prius.
They are UGLY.../thread
EXACTLY what I was thinking!
The Prius is the ugliest thing on the road next to the Chevy Avalanche. Anyone remember the pontiac Aztec? Talk about ugly.
Besides the fact that hybrids are over priced for the fuel savings. See South Park episode smug.... Hahahaha! Its good perspective.
Anyways...I'm down with the Olds wagon idea. No smog and you can probably do all the repairs yourself. Nevermind the crappy mileage, if its the wifes car and she doesn't commute to work its safe, relaible ,seats 7 and looks awesome compared to a retarded minivan. Heck it's worth the gas price just to save your manhood / pride. You could drive a minivan but there is no price you can put on your manhood get the Wagon! Besides with all the money you save on not buying a NEW car you can afford to get crappy mileage especially with no payment. 
1:47 am
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline Since WHEN does owning a station wagon save your MANHOOD over a minivan???!!!
Owning a V-8 in the wagon in no way makes up for the fact that it's a wagon. I grew up being hauled around in a POS station wagon. Ours had a 400 V-8. Still an emberassing ride.
I'll take my 3005 Tacoma with 140K over most cars sold today. It gets about 20 mpg, requires no maintenance and just rumbles a long. No huge V-8, but the little 6 goes just fine...
2:21 am
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline I agree about the wagon...at least the Subi is AWD
Keane, did you test drive the Nissan Rogue?
We will be test driving the Honda Accord and then moving on to the SUVs.
I used to wheel a lot. . .
3:29 am
Club President
April 2, 2003
Offline Oops. 
Sorry John! BUT YOUR wagon is the exception!
3:43 am
Club Member
July 10, 2003
Offline "BKGM Jeepers" wrote: Oops.
Danmg right! It's a manly wagon
I used to wheel a lot. . .
3:59 am
"JohnDF" wrote: Keane, did you test drive the Nissan Rogue?
No, we looked at it, but we couldn't fit the car seat(s) in it very well. Had to scoot the seat forward for the rear facing seat. Plus, we had already driven the Murano and I'm not sure I could have talked Kelly down. 😀 For the next couple of years we really want something with plenty of room. Looks like they're running a bunch of specials on Rogue's right now though. If you start looking at them you're into the CRV, Rav4, etc. type range though.
If you go Toyota, let me hook you up with my contact. I think everyone I've sent to him has been pretty happy with the deal they've gotten. It'll be the smoothest, most pain free car deal you ever do. I think he's also working the used car side of the business now so he may be able to help you there too.
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