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Observations from todays run
June 30, 2008
4:11 pm
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[quote="Ox Driver"]I definitely agree with gamfam on the diplomacy thing. I don’t know what the nature of this club is but in order to keep the trail we need the cooperation of the entire trail user community. If we start a fight with them we will lose because there is no way we can police the trail. The users have to police themselves and that means they need to feel like they have some ownership in it. If we make them feel like it’s us against them they will not feel ownership. Like John said if we have to fight a two front war for this trail with the green on one side and trail users on the other we will lose. That means our success pivots on not engaging these guys in a fight.
How about asking them as a club to join us for a work day to help get the problems taken care of? I guarantee any of them we could get to show would be protectors of the trail from that day on. Let’s focus on “how can we draw them inâ€

June 30, 2008
4:18 pm
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Fred
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[quote="GonZo"][quote="Ox Driver"]I definitely agree with gamfam on the diplomacy thing. I don’t know what the nature of this club is but in order to keep the trail we need the cooperation of the entire trail user community. If we start a fight with them we will lose because there is no way we can police the trail. The users have to police themselves and that means they need to feel like they have some ownership in it. If we make them feel like it’s us against them they will not feel ownership. Like John said if we have to fight a two front war for this trail with the green on one side and trail users on the other we will lose. That means our success pivots on not engaging these guys in a fight.
How about asking them as a club to join us for a work day to help get the problems taken care of? I guarantee any of them we could get to show would be protectors of the trail from that day on. Let’s focus on “how can we draw them inâ€

June 30, 2008
6:54 pm
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[quote="Ox Driver"]I definitely agree with gamfam on the diplomacy thing. I don’t know what the nature of this club is but in order to keep the trail we need the cooperation of the entire trail user community. If we start a fight with them we will lose because there is no way we can police the trail. The users have to police themselves and that means they need to feel like they have some ownership in it. If we make them feel like it’s us against them they will not feel ownership. Like John said if we have to fight a two front war for this trail with the green on one side and trail users on the other we will lose. That means our success pivots on not engaging these guys in a fight.
How about asking them as a club to join us for a work day to help get the problems taken care of? I guarantee any of them we could get to show would be protectors of the trail from that day on. Let’s focus on “how can we draw them inâ€

June 30, 2008
8:18 pm
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-great 😀

June 30, 2008
8:18 pm
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"lowrider" wrote: -great 😀

i meant great job bender. well said.

June 30, 2008
9:41 pm
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hytenor
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http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/ ... C07229.jpg
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blatent stupidity, 2wd and too much throttle 🙄
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original poster's rig there
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another poster on sn4wd, Jeff

"I was up there a week ago (not with Chris) and got VERY stuck on what used to be V-Rock. V-Rock used to look like a V, and you had to use your sliders on the passenger side to do the obstacle correctly...now your attempts don't push you into the rock on the passenger side, but rather work your truck around a very large flat rock just past the large rock on the passenger side. I got VERY stuck/high centered here and if it weren't for help I'd still be there (but that's another story).

I'm not saying the trail is f**ked AT ALL. In my opinion, the trail seemed VERY well maintained by the GHP. Just what used to be V-Rock is nowhere near the condition that it was in last year. THAT IS ALL I said in my previous post."

my reply to his latest:

Quote from: reallyloudtenor on Today at 09:18:45 am
I give up, you obvously don't seem to get it. I read your original and all subsequent posts; did you?
I and several others from the old Norcal ttora gang have worked with Gold Hills on several occasions to help work on this trail...long before you entered the picture. We have run it long before the main obstacles were trashed by dickheads who had no business on the trail in the first place. Gold hills has two maintenance runs a year, spring/summer when the snow melts and late fall before it starts snowing again. during the season when dickheads trash the trail they attempt to repair things as best they can but they don't live up there to police the damn trail 24/7. If you go up there and see small trees or what the hell ever that need clearing...just clear it and quit bitching for crying out loud. So your buddy flopped his rig while being a shithead...too damn bad.
I wasn't pissed off before, just trying to present the other side but now you have pissed me off.

Mike, I didn't start trashing the work of Gold hills but I'll damn well attempt to defend them, especially when they cannot even get on this board to do it themselves. If you have a problem with that, I'm done here.

Chris' reply:

WOW I got one. GO RUN STRAWBERRY that will solve a whole lot, like the I said a few post back, this trail has turned into a trial that any one can or could take a STOCK rig all the way from 50 to 88, NOT ANY MORE!!!! :banghead:I feel that is what I have been doing here. Chris you say that GHP has done trail work, great thats is wonderful I have no problems with that, ( however you lay claim that it was done recently) I simply have stated that the condition of the trail is in bad shape it seems to me that there has not been much work done to this trail, I have seen what has been done there in the years past, 1. I have helped. 2 it is a very close trail to me, we run it a few times in the year, dry, wet & snow & you now CAN NOT run it with a stock rig. IT is back to a great trail to run! On Friday night when we ran it, it was a good butt kicking on us, we went with the frame of mind "ya run strawberry, camp at the BEST SPOT EVER it is a easy trail to get there" we were proven very wrong. I am sorry that you seem to be pissed off for what you say that I am trash typing another club GHP. I stated that very little was done for the work! That was all, you however think or seem to think other wise what ever, this is not at all how I want to spend my morning on the puter. but hey thanks for following the thread about it, it shows that someone really does get out and WHEELs "

I give up 🙄 I've never wheeled with this guy and don't even know him.

'00 Tacoma with a few mods

June 30, 2008
10:07 pm
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Hytenor,

Thanks for your efforts and keeping us aware of what's going on in the community. Do you know if any of these guys have been able (or tried) to get on the GHP board?

There have in fact been 3 maintenance runs just this spring, I have been on two of them, the cutting of the large tree was the third.

I would love to have some dialogue with them, V-Rock will never be "V-Rock" again, all we can do is continue the spirit of it's original level of difficulty.

I got through it in a stock TJ with open diffs, I just had to work really hard and take some uncomfortable hits to my undercarriage. The same applies today.

June 30, 2008
10:14 pm
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hytenor
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"gamfam" wrote: Hytenor,

Thanks for your efforts and keeping us aware of what's going on in the community. Do you know if any of these guys have been able (or tried) to get on the GHP board?

There have in fact been 3 maintenance runs just this spring, I have been on two of them, the cutting of the large tree was the third.

I would love to have some dialogue with them, V-Rock will never be "V-Rock" again, all we can do is continue the spirit of it's original level of difficulty.

I got through it in a stock TJ with open diffs, I just had to work really hard and take some uncomfortable hits to my undercarriage. The same applies today.

I've tried to get him to post here but so far... I'll try again and use this quote

'00 Tacoma with a few mods

June 30, 2008
10:38 pm
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Fred
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If they register, someone pm their usernames to me. I'll be sure to get them approved right away.

June 30, 2008
10:41 pm
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JohnDF
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I think we all are willing to do whatever we need to do to keep the trail in good shape. That means keeping the bypasses closed, keeping it clean, keeping errosion to a minimum, and keeping it open by clearing any obstructions. This does not include rebuilding obstacles or removing obstacles.

It is unfortunate that some Yahoos destroyed the V-Rock. We had nothing to do with it. However, it is not our job to rebuild it, only to keep it clear and reduce errosion caused by the removal of the rocks that were there. It is too difficult and dangerous to put that huge rock back in it's place without some big, heavy equipment.

From the pictures that were posted, THIS is the problem. People didn't want to run the obtacle the way it was run for many, many, many years. So people started to drive around it. This caused the errossion that you see on the side of the hill. When that started to get too deep, then both lines became hard. So, they removed the obstacle all-together (where it sits today). By continuing to drive into the hill side, they are making it even worse and if you ask me are "off the trail."

Trails, left to their own, will continue to get harder "naturally." The Rubicon is much tougher than it was years ago. Fordyce used to be a dirt road, now it's a difficult trail. Do we ask that these trails be reverted back to there 2WD condition. NO! We as four wheel drive enthusiasts love the fact that these trails continue to get harder. That's why we love these trails and why they are so popular.

It sounds like the OP is upset because he told some friends that he had an easy trail to run. Then the trail reached out and bit them. This will happen on any trail. Be prepared and know what you're getting into. If the challenge is too tough and you're not able to handle it then turn around and play it smart. Even if you've run the trail before, trails change. Look at Winch Hill #3 on Fordyce. You used to be able to run right up it with 33" tires. Now it's tough with 37" tires. However, we don't ask the Friends of Fordyce to fix it. We make up our own minds weather or not we want to run it.

Ya, I'm pissed off 👿

I used to wheel a lot. . .

June 30, 2008
10:46 pm
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Hytenor,
Thanks for helping to get our voice heard. Based on your profession, I'm sure I don't have to tell you, but, there's nothing more frustrating than not being able to respond to your critics. 😀

If they need/want an official GHP representative on their board, I'm sure there are more than a few volunteers.

June 30, 2008
10:48 pm
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So the guy flops in the easy direction? 🙄 I guess that sums up his ability right there.

Stock vehicle can still drive the easy direction without problem so long as the owner has some capability. I can run UP v-rock currently without a locker, and I think George made it on worn 33's and open. Not rocket science, just basic ability (and no alcohol).

I sure hope these individuals didn't try to cut/remove the by-pass closures. Hytenor, if you post back there again, can you mention that many logs and trees are moved to close trail by-passes and need to be left in place?

These are the kinds of guys who offset all our efforts... Very frustrating.

July 1, 2008
12:57 am
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Good afternoon guys. My name is Mike Ross and I am the president of the Sierra Nevada 4WD Club.

Thanks to some cross posting, it appears as if our club is complaining about the Strawberry 4WD trail and maintenance that was done. This is absolutely not true! The (one) person complaining about the trail is not even a member of our club, and does not speak for us in any way. The actual club members I have heard from all agree that you guys are doing an awesome job trying to keep the trail challenging.

I have been wheeling the Strawberry 4WD trail since the early '90s, and I love the fact that you guys have worked so hard to maintain the trail and keep it somewhat challenging while still satisfying the environmental concerns that Eldorado National Forest has. I am very aware of what is going on in the national forests, and have been very involved in the route designation process. Many of our club members frequently get out there and help groups such as FOTR, FOE, and others. A few of us have even helped out on Strawberry in the past.

SN4WD is not associated with TTORA in any way. Several of the members used to associate with TTORA, a few still do, many have not. Our club is made up of people who respect the environment and get involved. Attending a trail maintenance function is a requirement for membership. We are a Cal4Wheel club, while TTORA is little more than a web based Toyota enthusiasts group. Our forum is private because we are a very tight-knit group and like to keep things small and friendly. The last thing I want is cross-board flame fests started by a guy who does not even represent us.

So basically, one guy, who is not even a club member, is reflecting poorly on us. Please understand that he is only speaking for himself, and not on behalf of our club.

I have not been on Strawberry yet this summer, but from what I've heard from guys who have been there more than once or twice, the trail is in great shape.

Regards,
....Mike

July 1, 2008
1:25 am
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Thanks for coming over here and informing us Mike...and welcome 😀

We have dealt with these situations before. When people take on a trail there is no way to please everybody. I'm sure the people who handle the Rubicon have it much worse. They have every body wanting things from extreme obstacles to a paved road.

I appreciate you coming here and clearing things up. No hard feelings twards your club.

I used to wheel a lot. . .

July 1, 2008
1:31 am
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I bet the yellow Jeep made it.

lol lol lol

July 1, 2008
1:37 am
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"JohnDF" wrote: When people take on a trail there is no way to please everybody. I'm sure the people who handle the Rubicon have it much worse. They have every body wanting things from extreme obstacles to a paved road.

You are not kidding there! Between El Dorado County, Eldorado National Forest, Placer County, Tahoe National Forest, Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit, and private property owners, there is a heck of a lot of crap going on behind the scenes!

I think that mostly we all want the same thing, continued access to the places we love to go in the rigs that we have built.

Keep up the great work on Strawberry, and I will continue to defend your actions to the less-informed people who happen to share the public land with us.

Regards,
....Mike

July 1, 2008
1:50 am
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JohnDF
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😀

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I used to wheel a lot. . .

July 1, 2008
3:39 am
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Thanks for clearing the air Mike and welcome to the board.

July 1, 2008
4:11 am
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Fred
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Mike, thanks for posting on our forum. It's great to hear the complaints originate from outside your group. Keep up the good work. We're all in this together. Hopefully the guy who is complaining will realize that.

beer

July 1, 2008
1:42 pm
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BKGM Jeepers
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"gamfam" wrote: I bet the yellow Jeep made it.

lol lol lol

I wonder if he'll sell me his windshield frame and glass?

July 1, 2008
3:27 pm
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BKGM Jeepers
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Is Mike the guy who had the white Toyota and helped us move the culverts? Or, is the former TTORA norcal president? Is this the guy? I don't remember for sure... ❓

July 1, 2008
4:53 pm
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JohnDF
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I know the name Mike Ross sounds very familiar.

I still wish the OP would come here and tell what the heck he was thinking. But, he might just be an E-Thug.

I used to wheel a lot. . .

July 1, 2008
4:57 pm
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Fred
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I did a search yesterday on Mike's prior posts. He did help with a cleanup a while back.

July 1, 2008
6:14 pm
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hytenor
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"JohnDF" wrote: I know the name Mike Ross sounds very familiar.

I still wish the OP would come here and tell what the heck he was thinking. But, he might just be an E-Thug.

Mike and some others from the original norcal ttora gang have been on at least two maintenance runs in the last 5yrs....got pics somewhere....

'00 Tacoma with a few mods

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