Memorial Day
After moving the springs to over the axles the shock mounts were to close together. So I wielded and mounted shock towers in the front. Also I am in the process of building a bracket for the rear.
If I can't build it, then it's something that should be bought.
Pictures of the front shock hoop with the shock mounted. Also the bracket I'm building for the rear mount.
If I can't build it, then it's something that should be bought.
Dave, that's looking good. And that additional ground clearance will come in handy on the 12th.
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
Rear Schocks now mounted. Built a sub frame for the upper mounts. Next New muffler for exsaust
If I can't build it, then it's something that should be bought.
Were your rear shocks at an angle that steep before? I understand the whole travel/dampening argument but I really didn't like the feel of the 4Runner when mine were set up like that.
"Bender" wrote: Were your rear shocks at an angle that steep before? I understand the whole travel/dampening argument but I really didn't like the feel of the 4Runner when mine were set up like that.
The angle makes them a lot softer, correct?
No they previously only had a 3" offset. This is only a temp install. My long rang goal is shock hoops for the rear also. but that's a cut into the body deal. Not ready to do that yet. Yes the shocks will be softer like this but they really were too stiff as it was. That is why I built a removable subframe and didn't wield the mounts in. I'll see how it performs and then change it as needed.
If I can't build it, then it's something that should be bought.
"BKGM Jeepers" wrote: [quote="Bender"]Were your rear shocks at an angle that steep before? I understand the whole travel/dampening argument but I really didn't like the feel of the 4Runner when mine were set up like that.
The angle makes them a lot softer, correct?
It doesn't physically change the shock making it softer but it doesn't damping as well so it feels softer.
Having them kicked in increases the travel on the shock. You lose damping on the sway of the vehicle well maintaining the speed bump type damping. I did the same on my old rig and I liked the improvement of the off road feel. But I am also the guy who runs no sway bars on any rig. The whole truck sway is normal to me now.
It dose make them feel a lot softer too because you changed the shock movement to suspension movement creating more mechanical advantage on the shock.
The sami I owned had a spring over and the shock distance was literally 6" so I couldn't fit a shock in there (meaning driving with no shocks in the rear). This approach would have enabled me to run shocks back there again. I just was never sure of the resulting ride.
"BKGM Jeepers" wrote: The sami I owned had a spring over and the shock distance was literally 6" so I couldn't fit a shock in there (meaning driving with no shocks in the rear). This approach would have enabled me to run shocks back there again. I just was never sure of the resulting ride.
Well, if the shocks are stiffer than stock then by running at an angle should help the ride some. And some dampening is better than no dampening.
Dave, did you happen to contact the shock manufacturer to see if and at what angles the shocks can be operated?
Not that it'll make that much of a difference as you'll be making the change permanent after you cut holes in the floor. I want to be there for that!! :hack:
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
"Path 88" wrote: Having them kicked in increases the travel on the shock. You lose damping on the sway of the vehicle well maintaining the speed bump type damping. I did the same on my old rig and I liked the improvement of the off road feel. But I am also the guy who runs no sway bars on any rig. The whole truck sway is normal to me now.
Kicking the shock in decreases the travel of the shock for the same amount of travel of the wheel meaning you can get the same amount of wheel travel out of a shorter travel shock. Of course you need a longer shock to cover the longer distance you create by angling them so you kind of get a double benefit in terms of wheel travel you just take a significant hit on how much dampening the shock provides. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on a bunch of other stuff including the springs, weight of vehicle, etc.
In my case I was able to significantly improve the on road ride without sacrificing travel using a rear suspension that included shocks at a minimal angle. I've never run a sway bar either but I used to have issues with "rush hour traffic freeway clearing" sway. The Suzuki is pretty light so it may not matter but at the angle shown (45 degrees?) those shocks really won't be doing much.
"Bender" wrote: [quote="Path 88"]Having them kicked in increases the travel on the shock. You lose damping on the sway of the vehicle well maintaining the speed bump type damping. I did the same on my old rig and I liked the improvement of the off road feel. But I am also the guy who runs no sway bars on any rig. The whole truck sway is normal to me now.
Kicking the shock in decreases the travel of the shock for the same amount of travel of the wheel meaning you can get the same amount of wheel travel out of a shorter travel shock. Of course you need a longer shock to cover the longer distance you create by angling them so you kind of get a double benefit in terms of wheel travel you just take a significant hit on how much dampening the shock provides. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on a bunch of other stuff including the springs, weight of vehicle, etc.
In my case I was able to significantly improve the on road ride without sacrificing travel using a rear suspension that included shocks at a minimal angle. I've never run a sway bar either but I used to have issues with "rush hour traffic freeway clearing" sway. The Suzuki is pretty light so it may not matter but at the angle shown (45 degrees?) those shocks really won't be doing much.
Yeah, that's what I meant. 
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
Well Tom,
Those Shocks I have had on the Suzuki for more years than I want to admit, so I don't think anyone at the manufacture would even know about those model shocks. Some would say they are worn out and need to be replaced. But they have been doing what I need them to do so I'm happy.
Like I said in the earlyer post. I made the sub-frame to bolt in the rear so that is removable and not permant. I will see how it acts and adjust as needed. When they were mounted in the "stock" mount locations the rear was "stiffer" than I liked it. So I will run them this way knowing from setting up my race cars (and you guy's posts) that it will greatly decrease the effective damping of the shocks having them like that. Right now this is the quickest and easier way to get the Suzuki back on the road so I can go on the snow patrol trip. And never know I just may like it like that. If not I'll make something differant, I'll just pull out the cutting torch, wielder and go after it.
If I can't build it, then it's something that should be bought.
Actually when you get your final shock setup built it could make a really cool test. Run it with the shocks like they are now, their final position, and then no shocks at all. Since you're keeping everything else the same it would be cool to have some first hand info!
"finder_87" wrote: Shocks are overrated.
So are sway bars.
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading -- Lao Tzu
For the tech folks, it's worse than we thought. I took a angle finder to the shocks and its not 45 it's at 55 degrees. OH NOOoooo
If I can't build it, then it's something that should be bought.
"Specialsoundman" wrote: For the tech folks, it's worse than we thought. I took a angle finder to the shocks and its not 45 it's at 55 degrees. OH NOOoooo
Great Scott! I hope you don't tear a hole in the time space continuum.
On a serious note...I wasn't trying to knock the work you've done. It'll work. For better or worse I'm an engineer so I have to ask. 😀 I've run some crazy stuff. Some works, some doesn't...my experience with shocks like that was so bad I was just curious. One last note, if your shocks were limiting your travel before do a little testing in the garage before you find out what is limiting your travel now. It could be your brake lines and that's a bad thing. Don't ask me how I know. 
No problem. What was the issue is when I moved the springs to over the axles I put the U bolt plate up on top and that is where Suzuki Samurai's have all the lower shock mounts the distance between mounts were like Brad said and the shocks were just bottomed out. So hoops for front had to go in, and did the angle mount in back. I had been running these shocks with a 3" spring lift (under the axle) with 4" shackles. Using the stock mounts it worked with these shocks very well, and wheeled fairly good. I just didn't have the highth/ground clearance I really wanted. (I've been wanting to do this spring over conversion for almost 22 years) So I just used the same springs & shackles and did the spring over conversion. So we'll see how it works and go from there. Oh by the way I did (just cause one just has to try it) drive without any shocks. Boy that was interesting, ever little bump sent it all over the place. The steering was almost out of control, this was at 40mph. With the front shocks it was real nice it acted just like before the change except the higher center of gravity in turns. And the rear without shocks was just a little "mushy/springing" I have not driven it yet with rear shocks mounted. I'll do that tomorrow and report back in as to how it handles.
If I can't build it, then it's something that should be bought.
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